Help - Sick Toadstool Leather

[aroda]

Hey gang! looking for some advice on my toadstool leather. It was doing wonderfully for months, and I made the mistake of spot feeding it with Reef-roids (i only found out afterward that I should not do this with leathers). It closed up immediately following the spot feeding, and has now been closed 3+ weeks. I know they occasionally close up and shed a waxy coating as part of their normal cycle (it did this once for 4-5 days several months ago), however this has gone 3+ weeks and it is clearly not happy - algae is growing on it, and it looks like maybe fungus on it? It remains firm and upright so is clearly still alive. I did an Iodine dip yesterday at the recommendation of my local shop expert (soaked 4 minutes with a few drops iodine in a gallon of tank water). Nothing else has changed in the system - lighting, etc, and my water parameters are great and all other corals healthy. Any advice? Is this a "just give it time" situation, or can I be pro-active in trying to help it along?

Pictures are showing photo of it healthy and photos of it now. thanks guys! appreciate the expertise.

 

[Wee Mad Arthur]

I’m sorry this has happened and hope you can save it but could you tell me why you’re not supposed to spot feed leathers with reef roids? I currently broadcast feed reef roids which I assume is ok as my leathers are fine.

 

[Jamo7]

I could just be lucky but I have seen mine like that before and it passed and is fine. Has stayed closed up for awhile during and after this.

 

[Jeeperz]

Try dipping it or at least blowing it off with a powerhead or turkey baster. Longest I had mine close up is a couple weeks. It then shed profusely and when it opened again it was much larger.

 

[reef lover]

He needs more flow. Chaotic flow perferably.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Blow gentle bursts over the top with turkey baster. Also add direction of water flow towards it, not at it.

 

[aroda]

I’m sorry this has happened and hope you can save it but could you tell me why you’re not supposed to spot feed leathers with reef roids? I currently broadcast feed reef roids which I assume is ok as my leathers are fine.

Hey Wee Mad Arthur, re: the spot feeding, the "experts" advised me that spot feeding the leathers can sometimes be too intense for them. Apparently they are not equipped too handle the proteins of the reef-roids with intense direct feeding, so it can actually induce them into closing up like this as a defense mechanism (sometimes reopening later, but sometimes eventually dying). This was what I was told my knowledgeable staff at my local shop. As my leather was VERY happy before I did it...I would advise against the spot feeding. I was told they can sometimes be aclimated to the feeding, but again something that needs to be done slowly over time. Feeding broadly to the tank and not spot feeding it directly i believe is totally fine though. good luck!

 

[Wee Mad Arthur]

Hey Wee Mad Arthur, re: the spot feeding, the "experts" advised me that spot feeding the leathers can sometimes be too intense for them. Apparently they are not equipped too handle the proteins of the reef-roids with intense direct feeding, so it can actually induce them into closing up like this as a defense mechanism (sometimes reopening later, but sometimes eventually dying). This was what I was told my knowledgeable staff at my local shop. As my leather was VERY happy before I did it...I would advise against the spot feeding. I was told they can sometimes be aclimated to the feeding, but again something that needs to be done slowly over time. Feeding broadly to the tank and not spot feeding it directly i believe is totally fine though. good luck!

Thanks for that, I will definitely avoid target feeding them. Is it showing any signs of improvement yet?

 

[Uncle99]

A second vote for needs more flow.
My leathers love flow! Got a small hydor right on these.
Keep iodide between 0.03-0.06

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Try dipping it or at least blowing it off with a powerhead or turkey baster. Longest I had mine close up is a couple weeks. It then shed profusely and when it opened again it was much larger.

I had one close up for 2 months, not joke. one day it opened up and looked fine.

Also, I am of the opinion leather, especially toadstools love lots of light and lots of flow. they are often put in low light because they will still grow, but I have had best success treating them like SPS.

 

[aroda]

T

I had one close up for 2 months, not joke. one day it opened up and looked fine.

Also, I am of the opinion leather, especially toadstools love lots of light and lots of flow. they are often put in low light because they will still grow, but I have had best success treating them like SPS.

Thanks! I'm hoping mine does the same thing.

 

[aroda]

Thanks for that, I will definitely avoid target feeding them. Is it showing any signs of improvement yet?

Nothing yet....we'll see what happens. Fingers crossed.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

I feed my leathers a myriad of foods including RR. Did the "expert" tell you by what mechanism reef roids or other foods with protein (which would be anything made of life stuff too) cause the issue?

I agree with others. Leathers need a lot of flow, despite what you read on websites. They need it to help them shed dead tissue. That is their main defense against bacterial infections. The iodine bath was good. Looking at your leather (now granted it's a photo and not in person so I have no idea what affect the lights have on it) it may have yellow spot disease. They can survive this but they will have some bad days for a while. And like others I have had leathers close up for MONTHS. They're just like that.
Soft corals have what's referred to as anti-fouling substances. If this shield is damaged (predation, heat, injury, whatever) temporarily or permanently, they will become quickly infected. In my limited experience, one of the most common ways this is damaged is, high temps (water too warm) or poorly mixed salt water being dumped into the tank.
Salt burns and it will bur the delicate out skin making it weak.
If you're pretty sure this hasn't happened, then good. It doesn't mean there aren't other ways, but these are usually my top two.
Again, flow. Lots and lots of flow.

 

[aroda]

Thanks for such thoughtful input @MixedFruitBasket, that's really helpful input. The only other issue I could notice (re: your salt comments, was that my salinity was temporarily high. I had a defective hydrometer and only realized it after testing my water with a refractometer. My salt levels were around 1.027-1.028 for a week or two. Once I noticed the issue, I brought it back down to 1.025 over a few days. However, my water was always mixed very well (24 hrs with a pump) so I don't think a "salt burn" as you say would've been likely. I pin-pointed the spot feeding with RR primarily because it closed when i did the spot feeding and has not opened since, so I felt that was a very likely cause of the trauma (and the folks at the shop felt it would contribute to it sometimes. They expressed that the nutrients in RR can be a "too much, too fast" experience for the leathers, but I don't know much more as to the mechanism other than it can shock them apparently and must be introduced gradually or not at all for them).

Regarding potential yellow spot disease, is there a treatment for that? or more wait and see and hopefully it recovers itself? I did the one Iodine dip, so uncertain if I should leave well enough alone now and just let nature take its course, or if there is something to be pro-active? It does appear to have small spots along the stalk (brownish yellow), and the texture of the entire top is odd and almost "encrusted". Thanks for all your input.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

They expressed that the nutrients in RR can be a "too much, too fast" experience for the leathers, but I don't know much more as to the mechanism other than it can shock them apparently and must be introduced gradually or not at all for them).




Regarding potential yellow spot disease, is there a treatment for that? or more wait and see and hopefully it recovers itself? I did the one Iodine dip, so uncertain if I should leave well enough alone now and just let nature take its course, or if there is something to be pro-active? It does appear to have small spots along the stalk (brownish yellow), and the texture of the entire top is odd and almost "encrusted". Thanks for all your input.

Salinity at that amount wouldn't hurt the corals, at least not leathers. A lot of them are in low tide areas and get some pretty brutal salt levels.
Do you know if the reef roads has any salt in it?

You're doing it. Iodine is probably the best thing. Direct sunlight even better if you can get it this time of year and not freeze the coral. Sunlight apparently kills a lot of harmful bacteria that infect coral. Of course sunlight pretty much kills and denatures everything at some point. The encrusted top sounds like it may be getting ready to shed. The surge of food might have also triggered a growth spurt and it needs to get rid of old tissue and expand. I know when I first started feeding a lot my leathers retracted more but only to shed and they grew like wildfire. So much so I'm now having to rehome a few cause they're now too big for my tank.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

If it helps any, I had two toadstools contract yellow spot disease. One I was able to save with iodine. The other I was sure I was going to lose so I fragged it and cut away the bad parts. The three frags left behind are now healthy and growing fast.
So worst case, frag it before it spreads too far.

 

[Kellie in CA]

Leathers are so strange. I have two toadstools on one rock. When I got them they were around 1" tall. I put them in my tank and they were closed for nearly 6 months. I almost tossed them several times. Then one day I come home from work and they are big and open with crazy long polyps blowing in the current. Since then they have grown at a very rapid pace.
Last year they started to grow all tall and weird and were flopping over, so I took a razor and cut them off at the base. One month later.... two new heads had formed on the stalks. Long polyps and all.

It sounds extreme, but if that one keeps going downhill, I would just cut it and let it regenerate.