Help with getting rid of algae

blackshirts2004

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I was having an issue with high phosphates and low Nitrates but got both in check. Nitrates are running about 10ppm and Phosphates are .159ppm. I have bad algae growth on the rocks that no matter what I do, I cannot get them clean. I do the turkey baster multiple times a week which does not do much. I had also dosed this main display with copper which I am now trying to pull out with water changes and cuprisorb. If I could redo that I would have never added copper to this tank. It is now down to .23 ppm after about 2.5 months of cuprisorb. Should I replace the live rock and sand to hopefully combat the copper and algae issue? Any suggestions are welcome!!

aquarium.png
 
Why did you treat the tank with copper?

While it's possible to remove copper with Cupresorb, as you're experiencing it's not easy. Given that this looks like a smaller tank, it might be worth just starting over with new rocks and sand. The tank itself should not bind copper and will be fine otherwise reuse.

I would also be concerned that your nitrate and phosphate are quite low, and I would suggest running them higher, despite what you may have been told or saw in the past. Running zero to very low nitrate and/or phosphate invites dinoflagellate algae, which may be what you're dealing with.

I follow the guidelines from Randy Holmes-Farley on parameter levels found in this post:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
From that link:
  • Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
  • Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
  • Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
  • Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.
I hope this helps and good luck!
 
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do not know about the copper but since you have no coral just take the rock out and scrub it clean. I had a huge hair algae issue and took that advice from someone. It took 6 months but have never had the problem again also add snails bumble bee, Nassarius, and Trochus the Nassarius love cleaning everything especially the rock
 
Why did you treat the tank with copper?

While it's possible to remove copper with Cupresorb, as you're experiencing it's not easy. Given that this looks like a smaller tank, it might be worth just starting over with new rocks and sand. The tank itself should not bind copper and will be fine otherwise reuse.

I would also be concerned that your nitrate and phosphate are quite low, and I would suggest running them higher, despite what you may have been told or saw in the past. Running zero to very low nitrate and/or phosphate invites dinoflagellate algae, which may be what you're dealing with.

I follow the guidelines from Randy Holmes-Farley on parameter levels found in this post:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
From that link:
  • Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
  • Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
  • Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
  • Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.
I hope this helps and good luck!
Thank you so much as this is very helpful! So, the LFS told me to pull inverts and dose with copper power since I had suspected velvet in the tank and lost fish. I am fairly new to the hobby but had I known then what I know now, I would have NEVER dosed copper in this tank. It is a 40 gallon tank. If I replace the rock and sand, do I need to restart the tank altogether or are the fish okay in there?
 
Thank you so much as this is very helpful! So, the LFS told me to pull inverts and dose with copper power since I had suspected velvet in the tank and lost fish. I am fairly new to the hobby but had I known then what I know now, I would have NEVER dosed copper in this tank. It is a 40 gallon tank. If I replace the rock and sand, do I need to restart the tank altogether or are the fish okay in there?
That's a tough spot, 40 gallons is larger than I thought the tank would be, so that's quite a bit of rock and sand you'd have to replace, but it still might be worth it if you're not having a lot of luck pulling the copper out with the Cuppresorb.

The LFS should not have advised adding copper to a tank with rocks and sand, if nothing else this is a difficult way to keep the copper at the proper therapeutic level because it binds to and interacts with the rocks and sand, but you live and learn 🙂

Velvet is actually quite rare in marine tanks, and you may have had something else going on. We have a section on R2R for diseases with some experts that are really great at diagnosis and treatment should you run into problems in the future:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/
Back to your immediate concerns, if you replaced your rocks using real, wet live rock from a good LFS or a mariculture facility such as Tampa Bay Saltwater, your tank would more or less be instantly cycled, and ready for your fish almost immediately. I would maybe watch for a small "mini cycle" just from moving things around, but using procured live rock will cut the new tank cycle down to pretty much nothing.

If you're going to use dry rock, then you would want to fully re-cycle the tank to make it safe for your fish.

Some do report that the Fritz TurboStart bacteria-in-a-bottle product is the fastest of all these products in establishing a biofilter, and if you had to use dry rock I'd suggest this product specifically to try to make the take safe for fish as quickly as possible. TurboStart specifically, not Dr. Tim's One and Only or Micrbacter7 or Seachem Stability, which are similar, but don't work as fast as TurboStart does.
 
Cubrisorb works, it just takes quite a long time.

If you have the $$ then removing the current rock and sand, replacing with live rock from Gulf, TBS, KP, fixes the copper issue and basically insta starts your tank over again. Live sand or a quality substrate is fine, well rinsed to remove fines.

I would, if doing live rock, also dump the water. Essentially a full tank reset.
 
Cubrisorb works, it just takes quite a long time.

If you have the $$ then removing the current rock and sand, replacing with live rock from Gulf, TBS, KP, fixes the copper issue and basically insta starts your tank over again. Live sand or a quality substrate is fine, well rinsed to remove fines.

I would, if doing live rock, also dump the water. Essentially a full tank reset.
If I go this route, there is no harm to the fish? Would I need to add Dr Tims or amonia or anything or just live sand, live rock and go?
 
If I go this route, there is no harm to the fish? Would I need to add Dr Tims or amonia or anything or just live sand, live rock and go?
No need for bottled bacteria with real ocean live rock.

I might consider a temp holding tank for the fish with all the changes, but I'm not convinced it is necessary.

What kind of fish?
 
No need for bottled bacteria with real ocean live rock.

I might consider a temp holding tank for the fish with all the changes, but I'm not convinced it is necessary.

What kind of fish?
couple fire fish, couple clowns, diamond goby, and a blue spotted puffer
 

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