Help with losing most of my fish!

[blackshirts2004]

Please help!! I am fairly new to the saltwater hobby. I have a 40 gallon AIO that has been up and running for about 3 months now. Went through cycling and got parameters all in check before adding fish. Added some fish and all was good until about a week ago. Our baby blue tang died and we thought it was a fluke so went to the LFS and got a yellow tang. then a few days later our clownfish died, After the clownfish died, I added copper power to the tank as I was told its likely ick or velvet. A few days passed then we lost our Valentini puffer, diamond goby and white/black clown. During this entire time since day 1 we have had 2 firefish and they are completely fine and healthy. I am just at a loss. We have tested water parameters during this time and everything has been right in line. I just don’t understand if it was ick or velvet why fish still died after the copper power treatment. I will include some pics of fish for everyone to take a look at. I appreciate any thoughts and or advice to move forward. Thank you all!

 

[Euphyllia97]

If it wasn’t due to an ammonia spike because of the first dead fish decaying, I would rather go for velvet with these quick deaths. Ich can be nasty but in my opinion is manageable and doesn’t mean tour tank gets wiped out. Do you provide enough surface agitation and flow for oxygen? Especially when using medications? Do you have a lot of inverts in your tank who might have died due to the copper treatment? (Causing ammonia)

Any pics of the fish and the symptoms?

 

[blackshirts2004]

If it wasn’t due to an ammonia spike because of the first dead fish decaying, I would rather go for velvet with these quick deaths. Ich can be nasty but in my opinion is manageable and doesn’t mean tour tank gets wiped out. Do you provide enough surface agitation and flow for oxygen? Especially when using medications? Do you have a lot of inverts in your tank who might have died due to the copper treatment? (Causing ammonia)

Any pics of the fish and the symptoms?

I got all of the inverts out before doing the copper treatment. I just don’t understand how the firefish are still healthy as can be.

 

[Euphyllia97]

Pics lead me more to think of velvet. As to why your firefish are doing well… I’m sure it must have something to do with their overall health or susceptibility to the parasite. But not knowledgeable enough to answer that.

Would have a read on how to completely get rid of marine velvet in a system before adding new livestock.
Sorry for your loss

 

[Fish Fan]

Sorry you're having some trouble with your fish. Maybe one of the R2R #fishmedic guys can take a look for you.

Good luck!

 

[winxp_man]

Your description points to velvet. If you did not see much on the body of the fish. Also do you recall anything odd about the fish prior to the death? And any videos under white lights that you might have before they died that can be posted to YouTube and linked here?? Where fish breathing heavy? Were they acting different than they normally do? I have noticed that most fish will show something different than they normally do when it’s a disease. Post death pics in most cases make it real hard to pin point what is going on.

If it would have been ammonia it would have killed all fish. Although some fish can survive at different levels vs others.

As for copper in a DT with rock big no, no. Copper seeps into the live rock and then you have copper leeching out over time. I would personally tear down the tank and redo the tank depending on how much copper you had in it and for what timeframe. You need to get a QT system going for sick fish.

Also if it is velvet then the tank should be ran fallow for 76 days. But with copper in the system I would say it’s not worth doing that. Unless you can extract the copper.

 

[blackshirts2004]

Thanks all. Looking forward to seeing what the #fishmedics think.

 

[kboogie]

It was mentioned in another post but to reiterate, once you put copper into your display tank you, for all intents and purposes, render that setup incapable of hosting inverts or other copper intolerant organisms (sharks, rays, eels, etc). Even if you replace the live rock and substrate you still will have residue copper enter the water column form other components.

Based on your quick action it feels like you are vested in your aquarium. I would highly recommend setting up a quarantine tank and doing a medicated quarantine of all new fish to prevent these pathogens from ever entering your aquarium from the beginning. No matter what your local fish store tells you they do, you should always do your own QT if your intent is to keep these pathogens out of your aquarium.

There is a great post on how to do a medicated quarantine that I will link once I can.

 

[kboogie]

@blackshirts2004 As promised, here is the link on how to set up a quarantine tank and how to execute a medicated quarantine. The creator of the process is Jay Hemdal, who is a legitimate expert.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I got all of the inverts out before doing the copper treatment. I just don’t understand how the firefish are still healthy as can be.

Did you see any rapid breathing in the fish before they died? I know this is a relative thing and if you don't know what is "normal", it can be tough to tell. The key is that velvet causes rapid breathing and not eating, followed by death of most fish over a couple of days. Flukes and ich kill fish much more slowly - they will continue to eat, but die over a week or two.

 

[kboogie]

Did you see any rapid breathing in the fish before they died? I know this is a relative thing and if you don't know what is "normal", it can be tough to tell. The key is that velvet causes rapid breathing and not eating, followed by death of most fish over a couple of days. Flukes and ich kill fish much more slowly - they will continue to eat, but die over a week or two.

I noticed no rapid breathing, or I should say "abnormal change in breathing", they would get startled at first then calm down. I spend between 45 minutes and 1.5 hours per day with my QT setup. I closely observe for signs of stress or non-parasitic infection, which could require augmented treatment (e.g. Kanaplex or Metro). I pay attention to the amount they eat and what they eat to determine if they are staying nourished. I love my fish, so I admire them and count the days before they end up in my DT, where I can watch them for 16 hours a day from my desk in my home office.

I do notice the Humu Humu's were both more skiddish than any of the other fish. My Clown Trigger, which is smaller than the Humu Humu that just died, is much more bold. He is out and about. As soon as the indirect sunlight hits the tank in the morning, the Clown Trigger roams around. The Humu Humu would eventually come out but roamed less and hid under a ledge when people were about, unless it was feeding time, then he was gobbling up the mysis and the plankton. I also would drop a 5mm -ish piece of krill to allow their jaws to get a workout. Neither Humu Humu ate to the point where they got the overfilled look that is common after feeding a large quantity of food to triggers and file fish. It was just so strange to me that over the fish that were lost, they just both happened to be the exact same species.

Since starting the medicated QT process last year, I've lost several fish in QT, but there has always been a really good explanation for the loss. My fish losses during QT since November are as follows:

1) 9 Bimac anthis (a batch of 4 and another of 5), two were killed from fighting, five were lost to air bladder issues, and two never ate.
2) A Juvenile Regal Angel, killed by a much larger Blueface (my mistake, I didn't catch it in time)
3) An adult Regal Angel, never ate and had internal issues (I was extra bummed about this one)
4) Adult Majestic Angel, never ate
5) Adult Aussie Tusk, arrived upside down, recovered, ate great, died suddenly after 19 days
6) Juvi Aussie Tusk, ate great, died suddenly after about 14 days, felt like cyanide.
7) The two Humu Humu Triggers discussed in this post

I'm going to give it another show soon, and I'm going to go with a slightly larger Humu Humu (2"-3") and do the QT in my starter hotel system (two 5.5-gallon bare tanks and one 20-gallon long bare tank). That's not fully set up, but I can do one of the 5.5-gallon tanks in the guest room downstairs while I get the racks built for the hotel!

 

[blackshirts2004]

Did you see any rapid breathing in the fish before they died? I know this is a relative thing and if you don't know what is "normal", it can be tough to tell. The key is that velvet causes rapid breathing and not eating, followed by death of most fish over a couple of days. Flukes and ich kill fish much more slowly - they will continue to eat, but die over a week or two.

Thank you. I would say maybe their breathing was quicker. They did stop eating. I was doing everything to try to get them to eat and they would not. Then I thought maybe they were eating when II would say maybe their breathing was quicker. They did stop eating. I was doing everything to try to get them to eat and they would not. Then I thought maybe they were eating when I wasn’t watching. I’m just at a loss as to what to even do with the tank at this point.

 

[kboogie]

I noticed no rapid breathing, or I should say "abnormal change in breathing", they would get startled at first then calm down. I spend between 45 minutes and 1.5 hours per day with my QT setup. I closely observe for signs of stress or non-parasitic infection, which could require augmented treatment (e.g. Kanaplex or Metro). I pay attention to the amount they eat and what they eat to determine if they are staying nourished. I love my fish, so I admire them and count the days before they end up in my DT, where I can watch them for 16 hours a day from my desk in my home office.

I do notice the Humu Humu's were both more skiddish than any of the other fish. My Clown Trigger, which is smaller than the Humu Humu that just died, is much more bold. He is out and about. As soon as the indirect sunlight hits the tank in the morning, the Clown Trigger roams around. The Humu Humu would eventually come out but roamed less and hid under a ledge when people were about, unless it was feeding time, then he was gobbling up the mysis and the plankton. I also would drop a 5mm -ish piece of krill to allow their jaws to get a workout. Neither Humu Humu ate to the point where they got the overfilled look that is common after feeding a large quantity of food to triggers and file fish. It was just so strange to me that over the fish that were lost, they just both happened to be the exact same species.

Since starting the medicated QT process last year, I've lost several fish in QT, but there has always been a really good explanation for the loss. My fish losses during QT since November are as follows:

1) 9 Bimac anthis (a batch of 4 and another of 5), two were killed from fighting, five were lost to air bladder issues, and two never ate.
2) A Juvenile Regal Angel, killed by a much larger Blueface (my mistake, I didn't catch it in time)
3) An adult Regal Angel, never ate and had internal issues (I was extra bummed about this one)
4) Adult Majestic Angel, never ate
5) Adult Aussie Tusk, arrived upside down, recovered, ate great, died suddenly after 19 days
6) Juvi Aussie Tusk, ate great, died suddenly after about 14 days, felt like cyanide.
7) The two Humu Humu Triggers discussed in this post

I'm going to give it another show soon, and I'm going to go with a slightly larger Humu Humu (2"-3") and do the QT in my starter hotel system (two 5.5-gallon bare tanks and one 20-gallon long bare tank). That's not fully set up, but I can do one of the 5.5-gallon tanks in the guest room downstairs while I get the racks built for the hotel!

Oops. I got my threads confused.

 

[blackshirts2004]

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed with my tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed with my tank?

The trouble is, you can’t run the tank fallow to clear any disease while the fire fish is still in there (it could be a carrier).

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I noticed no rapid breathing, or I should say "abnormal change in breathing", they would get startled at first then calm down. I spend between 45 minutes and 1.5 hours per day with my QT setup. I closely observe for signs of stress or non-parasitic infection, which could require augmented treatment (e.g. Kanaplex or Metro). I pay attention to the amount they eat and what they eat to determine if they are staying nourished. I love my fish, so I admire them and count the days before they end up in my DT, where I can watch them for 16 hours a day from my desk in my home office.

I do notice the Humu Humu's were both more skiddish than any of the other fish. My Clown Trigger, which is smaller than the Humu Humu that just died, is much more bold. He is out and about. As soon as the indirect sunlight hits the tank in the morning, the Clown Trigger roams around. The Humu Humu would eventually come out but roamed less and hid under a ledge when people were about, unless it was feeding time, then he was gobbling up the mysis and the plankton. I also would drop a 5mm -ish piece of krill to allow their jaws to get a workout. Neither Humu Humu ate to the point where they got the overfilled look that is common after feeding a large quantity of food to triggers and file fish. It was just so strange to me that over the fish that were lost, they just both happened to be the exact same species.

Since starting the medicated QT process last year, I've lost several fish in QT, but there has always been a really good explanation for the loss. My fish losses during QT since November are as follows:

1) 9 Bimac anthis (a batch of 4 and another of 5), two were killed from fighting, five were lost to air bladder issues, and two never ate.
2) A Juvenile Regal Angel, killed by a much larger Blueface (my mistake, I didn't catch it in time)
3) An adult Regal Angel, never ate and had internal issues (I was extra bummed about this one)
4) Adult Majestic Angel, never ate
5) Adult Aussie Tusk, arrived upside down, recovered, ate great, died suddenly after 19 days
6) Juvi Aussie Tusk, ate great, died suddenly after about 14 days, felt like cyanide.
7) The two Humu Humu Triggers discussed in this post

I'm going to give it another show soon, and I'm going to go with a slightly larger Humu Humu (2"-3") and do the QT in my starter hotel system (two 5.5-gallon bare tanks and one 20-gallon long bare tank). That's not fully set up, but I can do one of the 5.5-gallon tanks in the guest room downstairs while I get the racks built for the hotel!

Can you repost this on the other thread? That way I won’t get confused, and can keep the info all in one place.