Help with quarantine

[Zbutcher]

Hey everyone,

Unfortunately I didn't practice ich eradication and yes I know bad me.

However I am decided to do so.

With that being said can you please tell me how I can quarantine my fish and what chemicals to use? I have no idea how.

I do have a Mandarin and he eats mysis so that's good but is he sensitive to chemicals?

Please see my stocking list below.

Powder blue
Purple tang
White tail bristletooth
Cleaner wrasse
2 clowns
1 Springer damsel
1 Baby mandarin

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, the mandarin is more sensitive to copper than your other fish will be. That it eats mysids is a good thing, was it tank raised from Biota?

Do your fish currently have ich?
What size tank are they in?
Will you treat them in that tank or move to a different one? If so, what size tank?
Cleaner wrasse can be delicate, how long have you had it?
Are you in the United States? That has some bearing on what products you may have available to you, I am most familiar with US products.

Jay

 

[Zbutcher]

Yes, the mandarin is more sensitive to copper than your other fish will be. That it eats mysids is a good thing, was it tank raised from Biota?

Do your fish currently have ich?
What size tank are they in?
Will you treat them in that tank or move to a different one? If so, what size tank?
Cleaner wrasse can be delicate, how long have you had it?
Are you in the United States? That has some bearing on what products you may have available to you, I am most familiar with US products.

Jay

ORA actually.

The powder blue does but eats like crazy and it doesn't seem to bother him that much. The whitetail has it as well and it seems to be bothering him a bit more. Infact I stream my tank online to check it out while I'm at work.

They are in a 5x2 at the moment it equates to 100 gallon. I would treat them in a different tank. I have a spare 75 gallon. That's the closest to that size I could do for a quarantine tank.

Really? I didn't know that about cleaner wrasses. I have had him for about 6 months I think roughly.

Hahaha tbh I wish I was in the states in regards to fish meds. But unfortunately I am in Canada and it makes it EXTREMELY difficult since the government banned all meds. I have found a way to get copper power which I believe is chelated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Re: cleaner wrasse - those collected in SE Asia have a horrendous mortality rate, easily 80% in the first 50 days. Those from East Africa are much better, nobody really knows why. You may have gotten lucky, or you got one from E. Africa.

Copper Power should work, but it is kind of slow to act, so you'll want to get it started ASAP, if the ich population hits an exponential growth phase, it can take the fish out rather suddenly.

Fish meds are such an issue in Canada right now. I live in SE Michigan, and growing up, we just thought of Windsor as being "the next town over", and not another country (grin). Corals are an issue as well - having them shipped to Canada from a US supplier requires CITES documents, which nobody really can get. I recall visiting a coral dealer in SE Michigan where the parking lot was filled with cars with Ontario plates - and they were all buying coral with cash and then smuggling them back into Canada....

Jay

 

[Zbutcher]

Re: cleaner wrasse - those collected in SE Asia have a horrendous mortality rate, easily 80% in the first 50 days. Those from East Africa are much better, nobody really knows why. You may have gotten lucky, or you got one from E. Africa.

Copper Power should work, but it is kind of slow to act, so you'll want to get it started ASAP, if the ich population hits an exponential growth phase, it can take the fish out rather suddenly.

Fish meds are such an issue in Canada right now. I live in SE Michigan, and growing up, we just thought of Windsor as being "the next town over", and not another country (grin). Corals are an issue as well - having them shipped to Canada from a US supplier requires CITES documents, which nobody really can get. I recall visiting a coral dealer in SE Michigan where the parking lot was filled with cars with Ontario plates - and they were all buying coral with cash and then smuggling them back into Canada....

Jay

Now that you mention it, I think the store did say it was Africa.

Slow to act how? Isn't adding copper just that? Once copper is in the system it works so to speak? Well I've got some equipment that keep it down and hopefully keep it from getting out of control. I have a big over sized UV sterilizer that I'm hoping will keep it from exploding in population. Of course I've tried the snake oil meds. I'm such a dummy and in sorry for being stupid to anyone reading this.

Boy are they ever. It's really REALLY frustrating. I do have a full bottle of mardels quick cure from a friend who picked it up before the ban. Yeah it's kinda crazy. The person I deal with has no issues with his CITES permits mainly because he deals only and strictly in aquaculture so as to help maintain our oceans and help the planet.

Either way, do you have any specific medication recommendations as well as procedures for this quarantine?

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I would check out humblefish's tank transfer method or even his hybrid method which does not require meds beyond an optional use of simple hydrogen peroxide. He has a website dedicated to quarantining fish.

 

[Zbutcher]

I would check out humblefish's tank transfer method or even his hybrid method which does not require meds beyond an optional use of simple hydrogen peroxide. He has a website dedicated to quarantining fish.

Sounds good. However out of curiosity, wouldn't transferring fish on the regular potentially stress them out a ton and kill them.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Some fish may be more likely to be stressed, I'm not professing to be an expert on that at all. I know many folks have had great success with it including humblefish and others who quarantine fish for a living like Marine collectors etc... It's only 4-6 transfers depending on which method you use that lasts 12-14 days total. You can use colendars instead of traditional nets to reduce stress and lower risk of injury during the transfer. It's the route I'm going after my battle with ich/velvet as the meds are just plain poison and carry their own risks and rewards. He covers medication approaches just as well as the TTM method. With TTM you don't have to worry about species that are sensitive to copper and other meds. Read his site thoroughly, there's a wealth of good information there.

 

[Zbutcher]

Some fish may be more likely to be stressed, I'm not professing to be an expert on that at all. I know many folks have had great success with it including humblefish and others who quarantine fish for a living like Marine collectors etc... It's only 4-6 transfers depending on which method you use that lasts 12-14 days total. You can use colendars instead of traditional nets to reduce stress and lower risk of injury during the transfer. It's the route I'm going after my battle with ich/velvet as the meds are just plain poison and carry their own risks and rewards. He covers medication approaches just as well as the TTM method. With TTM you don't have to worry about species that are sensitive to copper and other meds. Read his site thoroughly, there's a wealth of good information there.

I will do just that. Can I ask you some more questions? Sorry hahah

But if it works in roughly 2 weeks I thought it takes a 3 month fallow period to get rid of it in your main tank.

 

[Uncle99]

If you are certain it’s ick, I have used the hypo treatment successfully many times, just not on Mandarin.
DT of course must go fish less for 70ish days to rid it from here.

The hypo treatment causes the ick parasite to “explode” because the lack of salt disrupts their ability to process the water. It’s like us drinking water forever.

In 4-6 days, the spots will be gone, 14 more days, and fish are safe.

Just a thought for your consideration.

 

[Zbutcher]

If you are certain it’s ick, I have used the hypo treatment successfully many times, just not on Mandarin.
DT of course must go fish less for 70ish days to rid it from here.

The hypo treatment causes the ick parasite to “explode” because the lack of salt disrupts their ability to process the water. It’s like us drinking water forever.

In 4-6 days, the spots will be gone, 14 more days, and fish are safe.

Just a thought for your consideration.

Well I'd do hypo but if I can't with a mandarin then it sounds like TTM is the way to go.

Oh I gotcha so fish are safe after 14 days but you have to leave them in the spare tank for 70 days of I'm understanding corrently

 

[Zbutcher]

Yes, the mandarin is more sensitive to copper than your other fish will be. That it eats mysids is a good thing, was it tank raised from Biota?

Do your fish currently have ich?
What size tank are they in?
Will you treat them in that tank or move to a different one? If so, what size tank?
Cleaner wrasse can be delicate, how long have you had it?
Are you in the United States? That has some bearing on what products you may have available to you, I am most familiar with US products.

Jay

What do you think the size of the quarantine tank should be? Keep in my mind 3 tangs, 8 fish in total. I know people say a 10-30 gallon but I am pretty sure it will be a blood bath with that many fish in a 30 for an eventual 70 days.

 

[Zbutcher]

I would check out humblefish's tank transfer method or even his hybrid method which does not require meds beyond an optional use of simple hydrogen peroxide. He has a website dedicated to quarantining fish.

What do you think the size of the quarantine tank should be? Keep in my mind 3 tangs, 8 fish in total. I know people say a 10-30 gallon but I am pretty sure it will be a blood bath with that many fish in a 30 for an eventual 70 days.

 

[Zbutcher]

If you are certain it’s ick, I have used the hypo treatment successfully many times, just not on Mandarin.
DT of course must go fish less for 70ish days to rid it from here.

The hypo treatment causes the ick parasite to “explode” because the lack of salt disrupts their ability to process the water. It’s like us drinking water forever.

In 4-6 days, the spots will be gone, 14 more days, and fish are safe.

Just a thought for your consideration.

What do you think the size of the quarantine tank should be? Keep in my mind 3 tangs, 8 fish in total. I know people say a 10-30 gallon but I am pretty sure it will be a blood bath with that many fish in a 30 for an eventual 70 days.

 

[Hugh Mann]

I will do just that. Can I ask you some more questions? Sorry hahah

But if it works in roughly 2 weeks I thought it takes a 3 month fallow period to get rid of it in your main tank.

Copper targets the stage that hatches off the fish. Kills them after they hatch, if I recall.

Fallow takes much longer, because it's not directly killing the ich at all. It's preventing their reproduction so they eventually starve to death, which takes time. I believe it is 76 days. However it really only HAS to be 45. It's only one study from many years ago that showed one ich strain surviving that long in cold water.

As for keeping them alive.
Tank Transfer Method moves the fish frequently enough ammonia isn't an issue, and with no meds present, Prime can be used.
Hyposalinity, no meds present you can dose Prime.
Copper, you cannot dose Prime so you have to manage ammonia with water changes (dose copper before not after) or seeding the hospital tank with established filter media from the display.

 

[Zbutcher]

Copper targets the stage that hatches off the fish. Kills them after they hatch, if I recall.

Fallow takes much longer, because it's not directly killing the ich at all. It's preventing their reproduction so they eventually starve to death, which takes time. I believe it is 76 days. However it really only HAS to be 45. It's only one study from many years ago that showed one ich strain surviving that long in cold water.

As for keeping them alive.
Tank Transfer Method moves the fish frequently enough ammonia isn't an issue, and with no meds present, Prime can be used.
Hyposalinity, no meds present you can dose Prime.
Copper, you cannot dose Prime so you have to manage ammonia with water changes (dose copper before not after) or seeding the hospital tank with established filter media from the display.

Yeah but I love my fish like I love my dog if I'm being honest. I know some people say they are just fish and corals etc but idk I really do love my fish so I don't want to risk the meds if I don't have too because I don't want to kill them or potentially do so. And yes I understand that irony considering the ICH management.

So I am definitely going to use TTM especially considering when I returned an open bottle of prime (came shipped that way) and ask for a replacement they sent me a full shipping box of prime so I have prime for years now lol. But I am confused. So if it's TTM I CAN use already cycled media? Or no media at all in both tanks it just need to be fresh media or no media?

 

[Hugh Mann]

For tank transfer you don't need to. The fish are moved often enough ammonia isn't a problem. However Prime can be dosed if you want, no downsides.

If doing TTM, nothing besides fish can come from your display. If you used filter media from the tank, you'd just be bringing along more ich, which will mess up the process.

It is somewhat stressful on a fish, but so is copper. There really is no "best option".

 

[Zbutcher]

For tank transfer you don't need to. The fish are moved often enough ammonia isn't a problem. However Prime can be dosed if you want, no downsides.

If doing TTM, nothing besides fish can come from your display. If you used filter media from the tank, you'd just be bringing along more ich, which will mess up the process.

It is somewhat stressful on a fish, but so is copper. There really is no "best option".

Yeah you got a good point

Can you answer this for me because I'm very curious given the cost this project will be. Would I be able to use a big heavy duty tote from home Depot to hold them? Or is a glass tank the only option?

 

[Hugh Mann]

Yeah you got a good point

Can you answer this for me because I'm very curious given the cost this project will be. Would I be able to use a big heavy duty tote from home Depot to hold them? Or is a glass tank the only option?

Heck yeah you can use a tote. Rubbermaids tend to be the sturdiest I've found, and don't seem to leech any nastiness into the water. Totes work great for TTM. Make sure to have 3 to allow adequate cleaning and drying time between transfers. 3 heaters as well, and replace the airline and air stone between transfers, don't even try to sterilize them.

I will say about using totes, I would recommend cutting holes in the lid and then using the lid to reinforce the upper rim, if that makes sense. Otherwise the plastic can bulge out on the sides.

I did TTM with totes on a Hippo Tang. Worked great, until I discovered I already had ich in my display.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I will do just that. Can I ask you some more questions? Sorry hahah

But if it works in roughly 2 weeks I thought it takes a 3 month fallow period to get rid of it in your main tank.

Yes, the 76 day fallow period still holds true, at least this is what current wisdom is telling us. In the case of the tank transfer you are essentially outrunning the life cycle of the parasites. Leaving them behind each time in the previous tank. I myself still need to wrap my head around why the time frame is so much longer for the fallow period. I think it has to do with the accumulated maximum duration the encysted tomants can survive between several life cycles. With the TTM this doesn't accumulate because you sterilize the previous tank between each transfer. So for ich that transfer time is 72 hours, for velvet it's 36.