High nitrates, nopox causing cyano

[lba4590]

Hi all, wondering if I could get some help figuring this out and what all I could do. I finally (knock on wood) got rid of my cyano issue caused by nopox. My phos is almost always 0.04 and nitrates are currently 14.2 (both tested with Hanna). I had to reduce nopox to 2ml/day on my 120g system due to the cyano issue. I do regular water changes, typically 30g every 2 weeks, but would LOVE to do them less frequently and somehow get them under 10 consistently. Any ideas? Still don’t understand why the nopox fueled the cyano so much in the first place. Tank is just under a year old.

 

[Spare time]

The problem with nopox and other liquid carbon dosing is that you can't control what uses it. That is why I prefer biopellets. However, I prefer a refugium over biopellets.

 

[JohnMzreef]

Maybe combine with a bacterial product such as mb7?

 

[arking_mark]

So if I understand your situation correctly:
1. Your measured NO3 is above your target of below 10
2. You started dosing NoPox to reduce NO3
3. Your tank developed cyano
4. You reduced your NoPox dosing and cyano is gone
5. You still want lower NO3

Are you having issues in the tank that you are attributing to NO3? Or are you chasing a number?

To reduce NO3, here are the things I would recommend:
1. Refugium
2. Introduce more nitrifiers to your tank
3. Continue carbon dosing

 

[NowGlazeIT]

If you want to get your nitrates down using nopox then you’ll need more phosphates. At .04 phosphates, nitrates will start to climb. I had this problem with nopox, I had no idea why nitrates were climbing and phosphates were always low. Then I dosed po4 back Into the tank along with nopox, this brought my nitrates down from 80 to 15ppm in 2 weeks. Took me a bottle of neophos too. I no longer run gfo so I can better track my po4 fluctuations

 

[Tamberav]

Hi all, wondering if I could get some help figuring this out and what all I could do. I finally (knock on wood) got rid of my cyano issue caused by nopox. My phos is almost always 0.04 and nitrates are currently 14.2 (both tested with Hanna). I had to reduce nopox to 2ml/day on my 120g system due to the cyano issue. I do regular water changes, typically 30g every 2 weeks, but would LOVE to do them less frequently and somehow get them under 10 consistently. Any ideas? Still don’t understand why the nopox fueled the cyano so much in the first place. Tank is just under a year old.

No pox is carbon dosing... feeding bacteria... cyano is a bacteria... so it can potentially feed that too.

 

[Lasse]

nitrates are currently 14.2 (both tested with Hanna).

Which Hanna meter for nitrate and which for phosphate?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[lba4590]

So if I understand your situation correctly:
1. Your measured NO3 is above your target of below 10
2. You started dosing NoPox to reduce NO3
3. Your tank developed cyano
4. You reduced your NoPox dosing and cyano is gone
5. You still want lower NO3

Are you having issues in the tank that you are attributing to NO3? Or are you chasing a number?

To reduce NO3, here are the things I would recommend:
1. Refugium
2. Introduce more nitrifiers to your tank
3. Continue carbon dosing

Thank you! Trying not to chase numbers but nitrates were around 50 or so a couple of months ago before carbon dosing. I have a lot of high maintenance fish and heavy feeding is unavoidable. I do have a refugium, cheato grows great and I usually remove a big handful once a week.

 

[lba4590]

If you want to get your nitrates down using nopox then you’ll need more phosphates. At .04 phosphates, nitrates will start to climb. I had this problem with nopox, I had no idea why nitrates were climbing and phosphates were always low. Then I dosed po4 back Into the tank along with nopox, this brought my nitrates down from 80 to 15ppm in 2 weeks. Took me a bottle of neophos too. I no longer run gfo so I can better track my po4 fluctuations

I was wondering about this too. I actually bought a bottle of it and was going to start dosing but then several people told me not to, but I also have a small diatom bloom (which doesn’t really make sense to me - no idea where silicates could have come from)

 

[lba4590]

Which Hanna meter for nitrate and which for phosphate?

Sincerely Lasse

I’m using the ULR phosphate and new HR for nitrate

 

[Lasse]

The Hi 774 have a accuracy of ±2 ppm. It means - if you read 0.04 - the real value is between 0,02 and 0,06. IME - the Hi 774 often show a too high value - for me - you are very close to 0.

I have no experiences with the Hi 782 but the accuracy is ± 2 ppm

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Still don’t understand why the nopox fueled the cyano so much in the first place. Tank is just under a year old.

Cyanobacteria can thrive by consuming organics. That's a risk of all organic carbon dosing schemes, if the cyanobacteria species present can consume the organics you are adding.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you want to get your nitrates down using nopox then you’ll need more phosphates. At .04 phosphates, nitrates will start to climb.

IMO, 0.04 ppm phosphate is more than enough to allow bacterial growth when dosing organics in the present of excess nitrate.

 

[Jon_W79]

I believe the reason people get cyano from carbon dosing a lot of the time, is because the conditions are more favorable for the cyano than the species of denitrifying bacteria that are in the aquarium. I think that a good way that people can try to help make sure conditions are ideal for denitrifying bacteria growth is to dose certain B vitamins that denitrifying bacteria like.
FWIW, my recommendation to anyone planning to carbon dose is to dose certain B vitamins (at least thiamine, and some other ones) at least 3-10 days before starting carbon dosing. I think that dosing the right vitamins (3-10 days before carbon dosing) could increase denitrifying bacteria growth(aquariums have organic carbon that comes from algae, and a lot of fish food has some in it), and I think it might could give denitrifying bacteria a head start before you start carbon dosing, and possibly help give it an advantage over cyano. I believe that dosing the right vitamins can significantly increase the odds that carbon dosing is successful, and without problems.

Here is some information about(at least partly about)dosing vitamins for denitrifying bacteria:

 

[Pistondog]

Stop nopox, which as others have said feed cyano.
Encourage competition by dosing microbacter 7 or Dr tims.
Reduce light until cyano subsides
Manually blow off docks or remove cyano sheets from substrate.

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all, wondering if I could get some help figuring this out and what all I could do. I finally (knock on wood) got rid of my cyano issue caused by nopox. My phos is almost always 0.04 and nitrates are currently 14.2 (both tested with Hanna). I had to reduce nopox to 2ml/day on my 120g system due to the cyano issue. I do regular water changes, typically 30g every 2 weeks, but would LOVE to do them less frequently and somehow get them under 10 consistently. Any ideas? Still don’t understand why the nopox fueled the cyano so much in the first place. Tank is just under a year old.

The appearance of cyanobacteria in a relatively new aquarium is not unusual. You aren’t the first to suggest a link between NOPOX and cyanobacteria growth, but it may not exist.

A bonus observation is that you are not adding very much NOPOX relative to the point where strong bacteria growth can occur along with noticable reduction of nitrate.

 

[Lasse]

Its so many different observations both in newly started and old aquaria that indicate a link between NoPox and cyanobacteria outbreak that it can not be neglected- IMO. All science start with observations, a theory and a test that reject or confirms links. IMO - all modern science denyer start their argumentation with - it could be a link but probably not because we have not enough of data - at least no data that show that it is in this way.

IMO - Aqua biomics analysis have shown up that there is a lot of different cyanobacteria that can show up in an aquaria. In my main aquaria - I have small amounts of cyanobacteria that IMO show up an atypical behavior. (Still there in spite of higher nutrients levels). It looks like small patches of the normal mats of Oscillatoriaceae but react not in the same way, My Aqua Biomics test show up that I have a total different family of cyanobacteria in this aquarium,

Because of the fact that i have seen and heard so many reports from different aquarium around the world that NoPox can favour cyanobacteria growth and that stopping to dose help to solve the problem - I can´t just neglect the observations with the sweeping words - may not exist. IMO - it is rather clear that there is probably a link - maybe not for all type of Cyanobacteria but for some species - between NoPox and accelerated cyanobacteria growth.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[WVNed]

Its so many different observations both in newly started and old aquaria that indicate a link between NoPox and cyanobacteria outbreak that it can not be neglected- IMO. All science start with observations, a theory and a test that reject or confirms links. IMO - all modern science denyer start their argumentation with - it could be a link but probably not because we have not enough of data - at least no data that show that it is in this way.

IMO - Aqua biomics analysis have shown up that there is a lot of different cyanobacteria that can show up in an aquaria. In my main aquaria - I have small amounts of cyanobacteria that IMO show up an atypical behavior. (Still there in spite of higher nutrients levels). It looks like small patches of the normal mats of Oscillatoriaceae but react not in the same way, My Aqua Biomics test show up that I have a total different family of cyanobacteria in this aquarium,

Because of the fact that i have seen and heard so many reports from different aquarium around the world that NoPox can favour cyanobacteria growth and that stopping to dose help to solve the problem - I can´t just neglect the observations with the sweeping words - may not exist. IMO - it is rather clear that there is probably a link - maybe not for all type of Cyanobacteria but for some species - between NoPox and accelerated cyanobacteria growth.

Sincerely Lasse

Please explain why every time I REDUCE my NoPox dose I get cyano. I am dealing with this right now. I am trying to fight it off without resorting to Chemiclean.
I am starting a sulfur denitrator and I am hoping to stop using NoPox and biopellets.

It's like I am going to have to send my tank to Alcoholics Anonymous to stop using NoPox.

 

[Lasse]

Please explain why every time I REDUCE my NoPox dose I get cyano.

I can´t like I can´t either explain why some (including myself at some occasions) people get cyano when they start dose NoPox. The closet I can come - different cyanobacteria species or/and different bacterial biome in the whole aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[homer1475]

Its so many different observations both in newly started and old aquaria that indicate a link between NoPox and cyanobacteria outbreak that it can not be neglected- IMO. All science start with observations, a theory and a test that reject or confirms links. IMO - all modern science denyer start their argumentation with - it could be a link but probably not because we have not enough of data - at least no data that show that it is in this way.

IMO - Aqua biomics analysis have shown up that there is a lot of different cyanobacteria that can show up in an aquaria. In my main aquaria - I have small amounts of cyanobacteria that IMO show up an atypical behavior. (Still there in spite of higher nutrients levels). It looks like small patches of the normal mats of Oscillatoriaceae but react not in the same way, My Aqua Biomics test show up that I have a total different family of cyanobacteria in this aquarium,

Because of the fact that i have seen and heard so many reports from different aquarium around the world that NoPox can favour cyanobacteria growth and that stopping to dose help to solve the problem - I can´t just neglect the observations with the sweeping words - may not exist. IMO - it is rather clear that there is probably a link - maybe not for all type of Cyanobacteria but for some species - between NoPox and accelerated cyanobacteria growth.

Sincerely Lasse

So all that to basically agree with everyone that NoPox causes cyano. LOL.