High Phosphate Experience Wanted - At what PPM level does phosphate impact your SPS?

[jreece11]

I was nervous as my phosphates went past the Hanna checker .2PPM max but my acros still looked so healthy and were growing.

After a few weeks of testing at the .2PPM max I bought a Salifert phosphate testing kit and I'm around 1 PPM now. My corals and livestock still look healthy and are growing but I don't want to put my head in the sand thinking it's fine when I know phosphates are high. I stopped pellet foot feeding and feed enough frozen food to keep nitrate at 5PPM.

I'm looking for experience from others that have/had high phosphates and at what point did they see negative impacts of it, or are their corals still thriving even with the high phosphates.

In case anyone wants to know my other paramters, since i know it's all related, I'll paste below.

Phosphate - 1
Nitrate - 5
Calcium - 380
Magnesium - 1410
Salinity - 1.025
PH - 8.0
Temp - 81

 

[Dr. Jim]

I would suggest getting the Hanna Phosphorus checker which is a lot more accurate than the Phosphate checker. (You need to multiply the P value by 3.066 to get the PO4 value).
0.2 and 1.0 is quite a difference (and both are pretty high) so I would think you need to get a more accurate reading.
I think you will find a wide range of opinions on the "optimal" PO4 and guess you will find a range from 0.03 - 0.2 or so. (I try to keep mine around 0.08).

 

[jreece11]

I would suggest getting the Hanna Phosphorus checker which is a lot more accurate than the Phosphate checker. (You need to multiply the P value by 3.066 to get the PO4 value).
0.2 and 1.0 is quite a difference (and both are pretty high) so I would think you need to get a more accurate reading.
I think you will find a wide range of opinions on the "optimal" PO4 and guess you will find a range from 0.03 - 0.2 or so. (I try to keep mine around 0.08).

Thanks Dr. Jim.

What's the highest your Phosphate levels have been, and did you see it cause any issues?

 

[Dr. Jim]

Thanks Dr. Jim.

What's the highest your Phosphate levels have been, and did you see it cause any issues?

Well...I guess my phosphates have been all over the place over my 50+ years of reef-keeping.....but of course in the early days we couldn't even test for them. I guess I started testing about 20 yrs ago when I started getting serious with SPS. When I started with SPS it was in vogue to keep PO4 less than 0.03 but I think today, most will agree the levels should be higher (as I mentioned). IMO the first problem you will see with high phosphates will be excessive algae growth. I'm not really sure how high the phosphates need to get before SPS starts to suffer (for reasons other than being smothered with algae). It seems like the effect of excess algae growth smothering the corals may be more of a problem than the actual PO4 level, but I'm sure there is a limit as to how high a level the corals can tolerate as well. I'm not real sure what that level is....maybe others can chime in. (I might guess in the neighborhood of 0.3 or higher???)

 

[jreece11]

Thanks for the experience share!

I have no visible algea but that's likely because of the tangs and snails and low nitrates.

The tank looks great. I'm just worried I'm going to wake up one morning to dying acros because phosphates got too high. I'm trying to find where others find that ceiling in hopes that it will help me set a max threshold and start running GFO if I approach it.

 

[NeverlosT]

I use the hanna ULR Phosphorus checker and recently saw numbers in the 60s (which means ~0.2ppm Phosphate).
I saw widespread death of montipora, burned tips on Acropora, LPS were not impacted.
I usually try to keep my phosphate around 0.04 or 0.05ppm phosphate.

Other water properties:
Nitrate 8-12 ppm
Alk: ~8 dkh
Mag: 1440 ppm
Temp: About 79 deg F
Calcium: 450ppm

Cause:
I usually do not feed flake food, just frozen. Recently (2-3 months ago) I decided what the heck, ill put flake and pellet in when I feed, see how the fish like it. I had no idea this stuff was like phosphate in a jar. So within a month, my phosphate went from 0.05 to 0.2 (I feed pretty heavily).

I am now trying to fight the phosphate down with GFO, and it got to 0.1ppm fast, but now is taking ages to get lower (I think rocks are now leaching phosphate they stored).

I am relatively certain that I made everything (corals) pretty angry by allowing the phosphate to go sky high and then come back down rather quickly.

I will say it is interesting that particular corals were way more upset than others. Montis - dead, TGC Pink Cadillac Acro - Thrilled and growing... weird.

 

[Larry L]

Lots of tanks run fine at higher phosphate levels, in particular older established tanks. E.g. here's one at 1.77 ppm: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/rich-ross-home-tank-guess-the-phosphate.296635/

 

[jreece11]

I use the hanna ULR Phosphorus checker and recently saw numbers in the 60s (which means ~0.2ppm Phosphate).
I saw widespread death of montipora, burned tips on Acropora, LPS were not impacted.
I usually try to keep my phosphate around 0.04 or 0.05ppm phosphate.

Other water properties:
Nitrate 8-12 ppm
Alk: ~8 dkh
Mag: 1440 ppm
Temp: About 79 deg F
Calcium: 450ppm

Cause:
I usually do not feed flake food, just frozen. Recently (2-3 months ago) I decided what the heck, ill put flake and pellet in when I feed, see how the fish like it. I had no idea this stuff was like phosphate in a jar. So within a month, my phosphate went from 0.05 to 0.2 (I feed pretty heavily).

I am now trying to fight the phosphate down with GFO, and it got to 0.1ppm fast, but now is taking ages to get lower (I think rocks are now leaching phosphate they stored).

I am relatively certain that I made everything (corals) pretty angry by allowing the phosphate to go sky high and then come back down rather quickly.

I will say it is interesting that particular corals were way more upset than others. Montis - dead, TGC Pink Cadillac Acro - Thrilled and growing... weird.

I learned a while back in my first tank, when something is out of whack don't try to fix it over night. Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank.

It's so odd that some SPS die and some grow faster than ever. It's an interesting hobby we decided on here, ha ha!

 

[jreece11]

Lots of tanks run fine at higher phosphate levels, in particular older established tanks. E.g. here's one at 1.77 ppm: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/rich-ross-home-tank-guess-the-phosphate.296635/

I stumbled upon this thread earlier linked to another longer phosphate thread and it made me feel better seeing a healthy tank with double my phosphate level.

On one hand you feel like "everything looks great so if it's not broke, don't fix it." On the other hand you think "don't wait for things to die to take action."

Constant decisions with no exact direction because all of our systems are unique in different ways. I guess that's what keeps it fun year after year. Lord knows it's not the water changes that bring the enjoyment, ha ha.

 

[NeverlosT]

I learned a while back in my first tank, when something is out of whack don't try to fix it over night. Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank.

It's so odd that some SPS die and some grow faster than ever. It's an interesting hobby we decided on here, ha ha!

Thats a fact for sure! For the record though, things started dying/declining when the phosphate had crept up over a few months to those high levels, the kick was they didnt get better when I reduced it, must have reduced it too fast like you said!

I think the issue stems from nitrate/phosphate imbalance.

I think the successful high phosphate tanks also have high nitrate. I think the issues may come when you have one sky high and the other non-existent or super low?

 

[taj0930]

STABILITY. Just don’t start throwing a bunch of “solutions” at your tank. Especially if corals look happy! Sounds like you already are thinking that way though. So that’s good

Evaluate your input/ output of nutrients. Make small adjustments to either the in/out of nutrients.
Water changes? Perhaps slightly increase % in addition to making small adjustments to input/output of nutrients.
I think people are starting to realize trying to duplicate ocean parameters in a glass box is not only impossible but probably not the right approach considering the difference in biology and scale which we will never be able to duplicate. Similar yes, identical...not possible

 

[volcano1]

 

[volcano1]

My phosphate usually runs around 1.0. Not that I want it that high, but it stays there pretty much no matter what I do. Tank has been set up for 10 years. I do battle patches of algae now and then. I quit cashing numbers and just let it ride.

 

[csb123]

Thanks for the experience share!

I have no visible algea but that's likely because of the tangs and snails and low nitrates.

The tank looks great. I'm just worried I'm going to wake up one morning to dying acros because phosphates got too high. I'm trying to find where others find that ceiling in hopes that it will help me set a max threshold and start running GFO if I approach it.

I have never heard of any stories about high phosphate causing a sudden problem with corals. On the other hand many have had sudden severe problems when nutrients have bottomed out, including my self. When mine bottomed out last year (long story), I had bleaching, lost SPS, and had a minimal Dino outbreak.

Excessive nutrients= algae (all tanks are a bit different)
Very low= danger

 

[LARedstickreefer]

There’s a few dudebros around here that keep really high phosphate and have corals (sps) that we dream about. I’ve had mine up beyond the limit of my Hanna ULR and didn’t notice any problems aside from my anxiety spiking.

 

[Mike Porreca]

I know dang well my phosphates are high. I don’t test though. And haven’t since I cycled my tank. Everything is great. Montiporas are growing like crazy and are bright. I think it just all depends to what they’re accustomed too in my opinion.

 

[traxxonwaxx99]

So I could be wrong but I remember reading something about Nutrient levels correlating to Alkalinty levels for coral health. Very low ULNS tanks have SPS issues when their dkh exceeds 7.5 levels so they try to stay at NSW levels of 6.5-7.0. However some tanks with higher 9-11dkh seem to have SPS thrive with higher nutrient levels of PO4 and NO3.

 

[gtrider]

My phosphates were at .4 for a while and now down to .2 (ICP tests). My SPS is growing like weeds. Tank is 2yrs old.

 

[SR Reefing]

So I could be wrong but I remember reading something about Nutrient levels correlating to Alkalinty levels for coral health. Very low ULNS tanks have SPS issues when their dkh exceeds 7.5 levels so they try to stay at NSW levels of 6.5-7.0. However some tanks with higher 9-11dkh seem to have SPS thrive with higher nutrient levels of PO4 and NO3.

Kind of agree with this from my own experience.

Alk 10-11 (reef crystal)
Cal 380
NO3 5
PO4 0.5-0.8

I am using ATI essential pro 2 part. So I emailed ATI asking if I can use their 2 part with elevated Alk, their reply is make sure to keep your NO 3 level detectable. Otherwise everything will die very fast.

I am like u worried with high PO4. So today I got my NP-Balance delivered. It should be carbon dosing in it's best, all these NO3 and PO4 will be consumed by coral and lower it a bit. If u want the story that sold me on it. Luk has a video with reef dude.

Also when u say what's the highest level on PO4 in reef thank and everything look good, I laughed. I remember there is a marine biologist from Miami University whom also maintain a aquarium in Florida that did a talk on Reef A Palooza or Macna. He had reef tank PO4 around 10 No algae No dieing coral. Of course we are not marine biologies we can't do that. Let me find u the link to his video.

Happy reefing.

 

[Drew589]

I accidentally over dosed phosphates and went from .01 to 2.32 in a 24 hour period, been 2 weeks now and been slowly bringing down with phos-e and my algae scrubber at .13 today. So far no ill effects or bleaching in my sps, I have actually noticed lps (scolys & acans) fat and happy.

Alk @ 7.8
Calcium @ 440
Mag @ 1380
Nitrate 8 to 10
Temp 76.9 to 77.5
Salinity 1.027

Dose acropwer at 15ml a day and add 30ml Red Sea AB plus every other day with 20ml Coral Amino.

425 gallon total system volume with calcium reactor.