How about a nightmare build thread?

[Gregg @ ADP]

Here's examples of pillars with drilled rocks. Pay no attention to the cyano or algae on the windows, we have been closed for visitors for almost a month :)

Let me guess...you started with one RBTA?

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Great thread! I feel the same way with many things at my work, both built by me long time ago or the staff before me :)

Not easy coming with ideas when I haven't seen the tank and all the angles first hand. But I can try!

Just like you wrote, magnets for streamers in the dry box. Maybe also in the overflow box, if the magnets are okey with being in water. No easy task to take out them and clean though.. :D

Maybe try a more light rock work, accepting some of the black wall become visible. With some rocks and corals in front of it I don't think anyone will notice the black wall that much. We've done a couple of pillars with drilled live rock and an acrylic rods or a PVC pipe inside, allowing us to stack rocks of different size on top of each other. This way the base doesn't need to be so wide. You could also run the pipe/rod all the way up and attach above the surface if you want it to be more secure. I can post a couple of pics of our pillars when the light come on later.

If you want to hide the gyre pumps you might try them behind the rock work on the back wall, outlet pointing upwards the surface. But then you need the tank to be water safe above the surface where the water comes up. This can create a pretty nice wave from the back top of the tank.

We have a couple of 1 meter deep tank and I really hate them.. I can't say I'm happy with them even if I've had many years to work with the rock design. I think I've gotten to the the stage "good enough" and then just let them go.

Keep up the good work and keep the posts coming! Some more pics of the tank would be great.

It’s true. Even the best builds we do rarely age well. Especially when there are things that can’t be seen and are there for function over beauty. Little bit of neglect, some dust builds up, some salt creep, and then we look like amateurs.

Re: gyres...I’ve got two in there now. I have them about 12-16cm down and have the outputs angled in such a way that one side pushes a little bit up and out, and the other side pushes downward more to get better flow along the bottom. The great thing about gyres is that you can actually have rocks on top of them, as they’re drawing water from underneath.

I was thinking about maybe making some shelves for closer to the top and making them so I could mount the gyres underneath with PVC clamps. The HUGE problem I have with gyres is that this tank is built right up against walls (and studs) as well as that stupid support beam. What that means is when the gyres run at high capacity and they’re up against the sides of the tank, all that vibration just travels up the walls and can be heard in the upstairs bedrooms. It’s super annoying.

I love the PVC through the live rock idea. I’ve done that before on the couple of times I’ve had cylinder tank jobs that I just couldn’t get out of doing. I was planning on doing that with a center pillar, but hadn’t considered doing it along the back/corners. Great idea.

 

[Sallstrom]

Let me guess...you started with one RBTA?

Yes. But in another tank. And I've tried to erase them from that tank ever since.
In this tank I think we started with three, and they outcompete everything, Euphyllia and other anemones have no chance.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

@Sallstrom (and others, of course)...

What about painting that black back area/overflows/dry chamber a darker blue?

Realistically, with the amount of rock I have, and building other lighter structures to get toward the top, I would only paint the top half.

This would be painting the inside of the tank. Possible? I was also thinking about just getting some blue acrylic panels cut to fit that space.

It really doesn’t take a lot of blue to make the tank pop. Here’s a softie tank I do...very little of the blue back shows, but what little does really adds a lot, especially when you can see the reflection on the underneath side of the water surface.

 

[Sallstrom]

@Sallstrom (and others, of course)...

What about painting that black back area/overflows/dry chamber a darker blue?

Realistically, with the amount of rock I have, and building other lighter structures to get toward the top, I would only paint the top half.

This would be painting the inside of the tank. Possible? I was also thinking about just getting some blue acrylic panels cut to fit that space.

It really doesn’t take a lot of blue to make the tank pop. Here’s a softie tank I do...very little of the blue back shows, but what little does really adds a lot, especially when you can see the reflection on the underneath side of the water surface.

I agree on blue background, thats so much better than black IMO. I didn't know you were thinking of changing it. Will you empty the tank?
As for paint, we've used epoxy floor paint for our current propagation tanks. It has worked fine, but urchins might do some marks or holes in it. I'll check if I can find what type of paint we used exactly.
But I have no idea how the results will be on glass. Might get a better surface and colour with acrylic panels.
Another thing, blue is great on a back wall in a reef tank, but blue back wall with algae on it looks crap. So make sure it's possible to clean easily.

If you empty the tank you could also look up different types of backgrounds to attach to the back walls. We've used a brand called Back to Nature. They have one type called Slim line, just 2 cm thick. And it's easy to drill holes into and hide pumps behind. Check @Lasse 's build thread or https://www.backtonature.se/en

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I agree on blue background, thats so much better than black IMO. I didn't know you were thinking of changing it. Will you empty the tank?
As for paint, we've used epoxy floor paint for our current propagation tanks. It has worked fine, but urchins might do some marks or holes in it. I'll check if I can find what type of paint we used exactly.
But I have no idea how the results will be on glass. Might get a better surface and colour with acrylic panels.
Another thing, blue is great on a back wall in a reef tank, but blue back wall with algae on it looks crap. So make sure it's possible to clean easily.

If you empty the tank you could also look up different types of backgrounds to attach to the back walls. We've used a brand called Back to Nature. They have one type called Slim line, just 2 cm thick. And it's easy to drill holes into and hide pumps behind. Check @Lasse 's build thread or https://www.backtonature.se/en

My initial reaction to emptying the tank was ‘No’. Wasn’t trying to turn it into that big of a project.

Then, I considered that, over the years, this one client has essentially paid for my kids’ college...so, I think they’ve earned a big present.

Now I’m thinking I’ll just yank everything out. The two problem areas will be addressed differently.

For Hell’s Corner:
the tank and overflows are acrylic, so maybe I’ll sand the areas to be painted down a little and go with a slightly darker blue. Then, I can put a new sand bed down, build the lower half beefier structures up, and then do a combo of pillar-structures w/PVC and some sort of shelves that I can mount (and hide) gyres underneath and have corals growing on top of.

For the beam box:
Wrap it in a BtN background and have modified live rock structures built out from that. Have a more substantial structure for the bottom half, but still have it take up a lot less room than currently. I’m confident I can build a fairly vertical structure and have it sort of radiate out.

This will allow me to really open up the center and build a nice column as well as give even more open water.

Here are some pics to help give some perspective to what I’m going to do.

Hell’s Corner:

Beam end:

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

@Gregg @ ADP could you post a picture or two of the tank from further away to give a little more perspective of how it sits in the house? I love this thread so far. can't wait for the next episode! When you re-cap on your posts you should write "Previously on How About A Nightmare Build Thread?" like it's a reality TV show. In fact I wish it was. I'd watch. it could be like Bar Rescue, or restaurant Impossible! :)

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

@Gregg @ ADP could you post a picture or two of the tank from further away to give a little more perspective of how it sits in the house? I love this thread so far. can't wait for the next episode! When you re-cap on your posts you should write "Previously on How About A Nightmare Build Thread?" like it's a reality TV show. In fact I wish it was. I'd watch. it could be like Bar Rescue, or restaurant Impossible! :)

 

[dantimdad]

Ya know what's even more ridiculous? That is really not good wood working!

I bet they paid a fortune for it too.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

That's very helpful! Now I can really visualize everything you're talking about. Looking forward to your next post!

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I must say that you've done a heck of a job with an awkward (to say the least) set up. It looks outstanding for what it is.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Ya know what's even more ridiculous? That is really not good wood working!

I bet they paid a fortune for it too.

In fairness, I believe that was all done 15 or so years ago.

The hinged access panel on the living room side was originally...get this...held on by Velcro tape. I guess it fell off and essentially shattered, and the company taking care of the tank glued it all back together.

 

[pickupman66]

OMG. you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

that Sunken whatever it is tile area. WOAH. like Seriously. that has got to be SLICK when wet. thats how people die.

Unfortunatley I have no advise for you on this. just a beer and good luck.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I must say that you've done a heck of a job with an awkward (to say the least) set up. It looks outstanding for what it is.

Hey, thanks a lot.

I’m pretty confident (another word might be ‘delusional’) about my ability to make a reef work regardless of the hand I’m dealt.

It’s sometimes frustrating to think about how nice of a system this would be if not for all of the built-in screw-ups.

But...like writer Tom Robbins said, ‘It’s never too late to have a happy childhood’

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Coming up next, we’ll visit the filtration.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I want to thank those of you who are following, participating, and offering ideas.

When I initially started this thread, I sort of wanted to vent, but also knew it would be comical and entertaining.

But you guys helped get me juiced to actually redo it. The client is pretty happy with how the tank is (if you had seen it when I took it over, you would understand why). It is easy in my position to get something to look good and then let it cruise, and be perfectly happy with status quo-ing it for as long as possible.

However, the tank can be way more than it is. I have a renewed vision thanks to your contributions, and the client is super excited to take it up a notch...or several notches.

Looking forward to hearing any other ideas or suggestions you guys come up with (other than tearing it out and starting it over). Thanks again.

This will be a fun reinvent.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Anyone who has had to maintain a tank has stories. I have a few but some of them reflect my desire to give the customer what they wanted when I should have said no thanks. The following is a couple of no thanks.

One in a Cabelas Store near Spokane. I was called in after they bought the tank and the filtration to fix their problems. Tank was already in the wall and dry walled inside the lid area just like your tank. Had to walk away since I have never seen such a poor quality acrylic tank sold at such a high price. The panels were raw cut with a hand circular saw (no guide) and glued together with Weld on 40. Gussets were made out of the scrap to prevent the tank from leaking placed inside all the major joints to prevent leaking. The top was made out of two layers of scrap acrylic material laminated together with so many bubbles you could not see thru the lamination's. The filter was even more of a joke and was smashed in shipping. Made them a sump to replace the broken one. I remember right the tank was about 96" x 48" x 48" out of 1"or 1 1/4" material. Told them to check on their insurance for personal injury in their store and left. Pass

Another was in a bar/restaurant/hotel in Spokane and a customer threw a chair into the front panel of a 120" long tank...they wanted me to repair the panel on site instead of a replacement of the tank to conserve cost...ah NO! They just paneled the tank openings on both sides and encased the tank in the wall. I am sure it still smells of rotting fish to this day. What a bad joke by the Hotel "engineers". Pass #2.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Anyone who has had to maintain a tank has stories. I have a few but some of them reflect my desire to give the customer what they wanted when I should have said no thanks. The following is a couple of no thanks.

One in a Cabelas Store near Spokane. I was called in after they bought the tank and the filtration to fix their problems. Tank was already in the wall and dry walled inside the lid area just like your tank. Had to walk away since I have never seen such a poor quality acrylic tank sold at such a high price. The panels were raw cut with a hand circular saw (no guide) and glued together with Weld on 40. Gussets were made out of the scrap to prevent the tank from leaking placed inside all the major joints to prevent leaking. The top was made out of two layers of scrap acrylic material laminated together with so many bubbles you could not see thru the lamination's. The filter was even more of a joke and was smashed in shipping. Made them a sump to replace the broken one. I remember right the tank was about 96" x 48" x 48" out of 1"or 1 1/4" material. Told them to check on their insurance for personal injury in their store and left. Pass

Another was in a bar/restaurant/hotel in Spokane and a customer threw a chair into the front panel of a 120" long tank...they wanted me to repair the panel on site instead of a replacement of the tank to conserve cost...ah NO! They just paneled the tank openings on both sides and encased the tank in the wall. I am sure it still smells of rotting fish to this day. What a bad joke by the Hotel "engineers". Pass #2.

Oh, for sure.

I once got a call from a guy who just bought a large house in a pricey Chicago neighborhood that had, according to him, a ‘really big built-in aquarium’ that he wanted to turn into a reef.

That’s enough to get anybody excited.

I showed up, and was happy to see an expensive looking home. The guy showed me into the living room, which had a 20’+ ceiling, and one wall had a 12’ x 6’ panel of glass. Turns out, there was a built-in 3500 gallon cement shark tank. I started to get even more excited.

Well, reality set in soon enough.

The only access to this beast was through a 24”x 24” hatch in the upstairs bedroom. That’s it. No other way in.

The lights would have to be mounted on the upstairs floor joists, but how would you even get to them???

Then, there was no filtration. Nothing.

My idea was to cut the brushed aluminum frame that went around the glass in half, lower the frame by 3’ to a total of 3’, drywall over the top half of the panel. That would allow me to build a platform above the tank so I could get in and work on it, room for lights, etc.

Preferable? No. But how much money can one make building, populating, and maintain an 1800 gallon reef? Probably more than enough to make it worth the hassle.

Got that answer quickly. The guy was excited by my idea and wanted to get started ASAP. The guy wanted the whole project done for...get this...

$10,000.

Uhhhh, yeah...no.

 

[davocean]

I don't think the woodwork is that bad, not my style or how I would have done it myself personally as I'm a carpenter, but we all do different.
I think someone was just following a bad plan, and that floor layout does not help at all, have not seen a sunken floor in some time, really robs space and makes it awkward, especially w/ that step right there.
Must be such a nightmare to maintain, even if you did have good access above.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I don't think the woodwork is that bad, not my style or how I would have done it myself personally as I'm a carpenter, but we all do different.
I think someone was just following a bad plan, and that floor layout does not help at all, have not seen a sunken floor in some time, really robs space and makes it awkward, especially w/ that step right there.
Must be such a nightmare to maintain, even if you did have good access above.

For sure, the aquarium elements were just built following plans given them.

The problem is that a ‘premier aquarium design’ company signed off on those plans, including everything above. They also designed the tank to butt up against, and wrap around, a support beam...a beam that didn’t exist when the aquarium was designed for that space.

My belief is that a design/service company has a responsibility to design systems that are the best for the space and be fully capable of supporting reef life. This company whiffed hard on all counts.

The original filtration? They put a 30”x16”x16 sump under the tank with a junky Red Sea skimmer. Yikes.