PapaWhisky
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How about a nightmare build thread?
- Thread starter Gregg @ ADP
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Chapter II is not for the faint of heartAwesome thread!
dantimdad
7500 Club Member
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
For sure. That Vlamingi is probably 10” long. He’s a horse.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Hot Mess Tank #1
Chapter II - What the....?!?
Just a reminder about this tank: this client had a ‘premier’ saltwater aquarium company design this before the home was even built.
In other words, it didn’t have to be like this.
I wrote previously about the fact that this aquarium had 12 corners in it. That’s more than most tanks have. Why so many? Well...we already discussed the inexplicable decision to wrap the end of what should be a peninsula aquarium around...of all things...a support beam for the house. That created a couple of extra 90 degree turns. What about all the others?
That brings us to what I refer to as Hell’s Corner.
Since I am typically at a loss for words to attempt to describe or explain what can only be summed up as a tragic engineering failure, I’ll just post a pic and then try to break it down in the next post.
I give you....Hell’s Corner:
Chapter II - What the....?!?
Just a reminder about this tank: this client had a ‘premier’ saltwater aquarium company design this before the home was even built.
In other words, it didn’t have to be like this.
I wrote previously about the fact that this aquarium had 12 corners in it. That’s more than most tanks have. Why so many? Well...we already discussed the inexplicable decision to wrap the end of what should be a peninsula aquarium around...of all things...a support beam for the house. That created a couple of extra 90 degree turns. What about all the others?
That brings us to what I refer to as Hell’s Corner.
Since I am typically at a loss for words to attempt to describe or explain what can only be summed up as a tragic engineering failure, I’ll just post a pic and then try to break it down in the next post.
I give you....Hell’s Corner:
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
For a moment, ignore the homeless gyre. Allow me to map this out:
Obviously, the corner is an overflow.
The wall (again, yes...drywall) that the gyre is sitting against is shared with a built-in refrigerator. There is not even 1/2” of space between the tank and the side of the refrigerator. In fact, 12” of clear viewing panel to the right of the overflow is next to the side of the refrigerator (why???).
OK, whatever...I can deal with that. Or can I? More on that later.
Look at the overflow. Notice anything about it? Hint: the drywall that the inside of the canopy is framed in (lol) partially overlaps the overflow. I mean, I guess I get it. After all...why would anybody ever need to get into an overflow?
Soooooo...here’s what we have: a 38” deep overflow with half of the opening built over with 2x4 and drywall.
Oh, hey...wait. Remember how I asked ‘why would anybody ever need to get into an overflow?’. Yeah...I found a reason in the first 5 minutes I was looking at the tank on the initial consultation: the company that installed this thing (at, presumably, an astronomical pricetag) decided it would be a good idea to plumb the drain and return bulkheads with the flange side on the outside bottom of the tank and the bulkhead nuts INSIDE THE OVERFLOW!
Naturally, they were both leaking when I first saw the tank. Just as naturally, there was no conceivable way to tighten them.
Obviously, the corner is an overflow.
The wall (again, yes...drywall) that the gyre is sitting against is shared with a built-in refrigerator. There is not even 1/2” of space between the tank and the side of the refrigerator. In fact, 12” of clear viewing panel to the right of the overflow is next to the side of the refrigerator (why???).
OK, whatever...I can deal with that. Or can I? More on that later.
Look at the overflow. Notice anything about it? Hint: the drywall that the inside of the canopy is framed in (lol) partially overlaps the overflow. I mean, I guess I get it. After all...why would anybody ever need to get into an overflow?
Soooooo...here’s what we have: a 38” deep overflow with half of the opening built over with 2x4 and drywall.
Oh, hey...wait. Remember how I asked ‘why would anybody ever need to get into an overflow?’. Yeah...I found a reason in the first 5 minutes I was looking at the tank on the initial consultation: the company that installed this thing (at, presumably, an astronomical pricetag) decided it would be a good idea to plumb the drain and return bulkheads with the flange side on the outside bottom of the tank and the bulkhead nuts INSIDE THE OVERFLOW!
Naturally, they were both leaking when I first saw the tank. Just as naturally, there was no conceivable way to tighten them.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
OK...I’m not even done with this corner.
Let’s take a closer look:
You will quickly notice (once you finally pick your mouth up off the floor from seeing an overflow blocked by drywall...why is there a lip???) that there is both electrical conduit and PVC coming from God knows where.
That’s what gives us our final 2 corners...a built-in dry chamber.
Now, can somebody explain to me like I’m 6 years old why we would have a dry-chamber built into a tank on an end that is enclosed by nothing but an empty wall? Aren’t dry chambers so you can run things from underneath to above the tank without seeing them? There’s a friggin wall there!!!
The PVC admittedly is my own doing. There was initially a recirc pump under the tank (somewhere) that was plumbed through the dry chamber.
The one thing this company did correctly was not plumb through the bottom of the dry chamber with bulkheads and just left holes in the bottom with pipes going through.
It’s a good thing, because if they hadn’t allowed some way for the water that was dripping from the bulkheads at the top of the dry chamber to drip out, then the chamber would have filled with saltwater and corroded through the live electrical conduit and probably electrocuted anybody that got within 5’ of the tank.
Let’s take a closer look:
You will quickly notice (once you finally pick your mouth up off the floor from seeing an overflow blocked by drywall...why is there a lip???) that there is both electrical conduit and PVC coming from God knows where.
That’s what gives us our final 2 corners...a built-in dry chamber.
Now, can somebody explain to me like I’m 6 years old why we would have a dry-chamber built into a tank on an end that is enclosed by nothing but an empty wall? Aren’t dry chambers so you can run things from underneath to above the tank without seeing them? There’s a friggin wall there!!!
The PVC admittedly is my own doing. There was initially a recirc pump under the tank (somewhere) that was plumbed through the dry chamber.
The one thing this company did correctly was not plumb through the bottom of the dry chamber with bulkheads and just left holes in the bottom with pipes going through.
It’s a good thing, because if they hadn’t allowed some way for the water that was dripping from the bulkheads at the top of the dry chamber to drip out, then the chamber would have filled with saltwater and corroded through the live electrical conduit and probably electrocuted anybody that got within 5’ of the tank.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Another thing...
See how the drywall above the overflow is sort of ripped away?
I had to do that. You know why? It’s because they put in 20” of PVC from the bulkhead up inside the overflow, and then put in a T to split the line into 2 returns.
I think it goes without saying that they did not cement the T and the flow eventually blew it off and water was shooting straight up out of the return line. So, I guess I can’t totally take credit for yanking out the drywall. Water from the return pump had disintegrated a lot of it first.
Fortunately, I was there when this happened. While I was putting together a game plan for redoing the tank, I jiggled the loc-line (they reduced it down to 1/2”, BTW) and must have woken the loose fitting from its slumber. I normally would have discovered a problem during the initial inspection...if I could have actually seen down into the overflow.
As it was, I didn’t find out they didn’t cement the fitting until I was in the lower level scouting out a place for the filtration and water started dripping on my head.
Spoiler: yes, they initially put the filtration (what little there was) under the tank in the cabinet.
See how the drywall above the overflow is sort of ripped away?
I had to do that. You know why? It’s because they put in 20” of PVC from the bulkhead up inside the overflow, and then put in a T to split the line into 2 returns.
I think it goes without saying that they did not cement the T and the flow eventually blew it off and water was shooting straight up out of the return line. So, I guess I can’t totally take credit for yanking out the drywall. Water from the return pump had disintegrated a lot of it first.
Fortunately, I was there when this happened. While I was putting together a game plan for redoing the tank, I jiggled the loc-line (they reduced it down to 1/2”, BTW) and must have woken the loose fitting from its slumber. I normally would have discovered a problem during the initial inspection...if I could have actually seen down into the overflow.
As it was, I didn’t find out they didn’t cement the fitting until I was in the lower level scouting out a place for the filtration and water started dripping on my head.
Spoiler: yes, they initially put the filtration (what little there was) under the tank in the cabinet.
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Gregg @ ADP
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Now, Hell’s Corner doesn’t just refer to the area above the tank.
Immediately below is yet another labyrinth of failure that defies all reason and explanation. But that’s for tomorrow.
Right now I need a drink.
Immediately below is yet another labyrinth of failure that defies all reason and explanation. But that’s for tomorrow.
Right now I need a drink.
On the other forum I had a guy with a pretty amazing build thread tell me he was envious that I had no worry about posting the bad things that happen in my thread, and he wished he could do the same without feeling nervous it would make people second guess all his opinions, and experience.
Another friend was silent for a few months, after having been asked a few dozen times why there's been no updates he broke silence to say he had AEFW take over his tank. On the other hand, I've also got a friend that shared immediately when AEFW was found in his.
Some people put in everything. Some people don't.
Another friend was silent for a few months, after having been asked a few dozen times why there's been no updates he broke silence to say he had AEFW take over his tank. On the other hand, I've also got a friend that shared immediately when AEFW was found in his.
Some people put in everything. Some people don't.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Haha, well...the only reason I’m sharing it all is because somebody else was responsible for it.
Had I been the one to build this, I wouldn’t show my face in a single aquarium forum...ever.
But, believe me...I have some semi-embarrassing stuff I can’t hide from coming up.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
cheers! I salute your determination
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Billable hours help me maintain focus and drive!
Now, here is where I am enlisting the help of the R2R crew. Today I had a ‘state of the tank’ with the client, and got the green light to reinvent the tank somewhat.
My main contention...believe it or not, the rotting drywall and lack of access are liveable inconveniences...is that the two black boxes (one around the beam and Hell’s Corner) are prime real estate, but are unsightly and require being somehow hidden. This is a major PIA, mainly because of gravity.
Here’s where getting the OK to revamp has me amped: I can now turn the upper half of the tank into SPS dominated. That means (fingers crossed) that I can now manufacture some way to get stuff anchored to those boxes, start attaching frags etc, and let things in the top half grow horizontally as much as vertically (again, fingers crossed).
Then, the lower half can be some of the larger pieces of rock in the tank (and several pieces are 10lbs and up) place to build an elaborate reef structure but, because it would no longer have to support a bunch of rocks balanced on top of it as it currently exists, it could be moved away from the center and open up even more floor space. The lower half would house more LPS and softies.
I’m also considering building a semi-permanent pillar-type structure loaded with SPS frags on the top and upper sides that would be placed in the middle.
So, what tips and ideas do you guys have for achieving this? Here is a (not to scale) rough sketch of the back corner:
I’ve got 2 Maxspect 250s and 1 Icecap gyre that I will incorporate but would like to be somewhat hidden. The returns currently come out in front of the overflow, but I can move those things anywhere because I can just plumb along the top of the tank and have outputs more or less wherever I want them.
I can also drill through the upper part of the overflow to make mounts for some sort of flatter shelves, but I can’t do anything like that with that dry chamber. The PVC line in the dry chamber currently is no longer in use, so once I cap off those bulkheads, I could squeeze magnets in there.
What ideas do you guys have? Maybe my guy @Sallstrom has something up his sleeve, given that he is deep in that mode right now.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Haha, yeah...none of that is happening. It’s all custom cabinetry that is the same cabinetry throughout the kitchen.
That ship sailed when it was initially built. Trust me...I tried (several times)
Sallstrom
2500 Club Member
Billable hours help me maintain focus and drive!
Now, here is where I am enlisting the help of the R2R crew. Today I had a ‘state of the tank’ with the client, and got the green light to reinvent the tank somewhat.
My main contention...believe it or not, the rotting drywall and lack of access are liveable inconveniences...is that the two black boxes (one around the beam and Hell’s Corner) are prime real estate, but are unsightly and require being somehow hidden. This is a major PIA, mainly because of gravity.
Here’s where getting the OK to revamp has me amped: I can now turn the upper half of the tank into SPS dominated. That means (fingers crossed) that I can now manufacture some way to get stuff anchored to those boxes, start attaching frags etc, and let things in the top half grow horizontally as much as vertically (again, fingers crossed).
Then, the lower half can be some of the larger pieces of rock in the tank (and several pieces are 10lbs and up) place to build an elaborate reef structure but, because it would no longer have to support a bunch of rocks balanced on top of it as it currently exists, it could be moved away from the center and open up even more floor space. The lower half would house more LPS and softies.
I’m also considering building a semi-permanent pillar-type structure loaded with SPS frags on the top and upper sides that would be placed in the middle.
So, what tips and ideas do you guys have for achieving this? Here is a (not to scale) rough sketch of the back corner:
I’ve got 2 Maxspect 250s and 1 Icecap gyre that I will incorporate but would like to be somewhat hidden. The returns currently come out in front of the overflow, but I can move those things anywhere because I can just plumb along the top of the tank and have outputs more or less wherever I want them.
I can also drill through the upper part of the overflow to make mounts for some sort of flatter shelves, but I can’t do anything like that with that dry chamber. The PVC line in the dry chamber currently is no longer in use, so once I cap off those bulkheads, I could squeeze magnets in there.
What ideas do you guys have? Maybe my guy @Sallstrom has something up his sleeve, given that he is deep in that mode right now.
Great thread! I feel the same way with many things at my work, both built by me long time ago or the staff before me
Not easy coming with ideas when I haven't seen the tank and all the angles first hand. But I can try!
Just like you wrote, magnets for streamers in the dry box. Maybe also in the overflow box, if the magnets are okey with being in water. No easy task to take out them and clean though..
Maybe try a more light rock work, accepting some of the black wall become visible. With some rocks and corals in front of it I don't think anyone will notice the black wall that much. We've done a couple of pillars with drilled live rock and an acrylic rods or a PVC pipe inside, allowing us to stack rocks of different size on top of each other. This way the base doesn't need to be so wide. You could also run the pipe/rod all the way up and attach above the surface if you want it to be more secure. I can post a couple of pics of our pillars when the light come on later.
If you want to hide the gyre pumps you might try them behind the rock work on the back wall, outlet pointing upwards the surface. But then you need the tank to be water safe above the surface where the water comes up. This can create a pretty nice wave from the back top of the tank.
We have a couple of 1 meter deep tank and I really hate them.. I can't say I'm happy with them even if I've had many years to work with the rock design. I think I've gotten to the the stage "good enough" and then just let them go.
Keep up the good work and keep the posts coming! Some more pics of the tank would be great.
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