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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Plenty more coming up
How about a nightmare build thread?
- Thread starter Gregg @ ADP
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Thing is, it’s the job of the pros to consult and advise on the best tank.
A tall, skinny cylinder is doomed to fail. Every time. I’ve definitely missed on big spending clients because I’ve advised against their dream tanks. But, you just know when something isn’t going to work.
Wow, I'm a Contractor/carpenter myself as well as reefer, this has been a good read, great tips on what not to do!(By previous builder/s)
I've walked onto some nightmares before, and man I hate it when I know there was a substantial budget for the first guy, and then having to come in as the clean up guy, and somehow make chicken soup out of chicken poop!
I'm sure one day they will realize what you already know, would have been easier, cheaper, more rewarding to tear out and start over.
This has been a worthy read, I'm feeling pretty good about my own challenges in life right now, and to that I say thank you! (And good luck man...)
I've walked onto some nightmares before, and man I hate it when I know there was a substantial budget for the first guy, and then having to come in as the clean up guy, and somehow make chicken soup out of chicken poop!
I'm sure one day they will realize what you already know, would have been easier, cheaper, more rewarding to tear out and start over.
This has been a worthy read, I'm feeling pretty good about my own challenges in life right now, and to that I say thank you! (And good luck man...)
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Gregg @ ADP
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Back to the fun...
Let’s look at access. This is a look-thru ‘peninsula’ dividing a living room and kitchen. It’s 36” wide/deep. More importantly, it’s 38” tall. It’s also acrylic, so it has a 12” wide center brace.
I want to revisit the fact that this was a tank to be designed as a centerpiece in a not yet designed house. The client was willing to do and pay whatever necessary for a great reef tank.
Now, look at this. Here’s the access on the kitchen side:
Overbuilt on the framing. Takes what could be about a little over 2’ and shrinks it down to less than 15”. As I mentioned previously, they had all the room in the world above for canopy space (it goes up nearly 30” above the tank). But then they framed it all in and drywalled it...including above the tank...and killed all of that space. You can see where the shelf and one of the power strips is mounted...that’s just a hollow drywall box (that is filled with fiberglass insulation [lol]) than comes down to maybe 18” above the tank. There is a small space of about 10” where it’s open vertically (I somehow jammed a shelf for controllers and converters in that space).
It’s also built up about 8” from the top of the tank, which makes it even harder to access the tank. I can barely reach the bottom left corner of the tank.
Here’s where it starts to get good:
Here’s the living room side. See that red thing near the bottom left of the tank? That’s a ladder. Oh...by the way...it’s a 6’ ladder.
Let me repeat that. The bottom of the tank is 6’ off the floor on the living room side. Now, look at the opening. You can see that I only have a little over a foot of space to squeeze into in order to try to get into and work on a 38” deep tank...while standing on top of a 6’ ladder and breaking ladder rules by standing on the top step.
Now...look into the area in the back left corner. That is where this tank goes to the next level of bad.
Let’s look at access. This is a look-thru ‘peninsula’ dividing a living room and kitchen. It’s 36” wide/deep. More importantly, it’s 38” tall. It’s also acrylic, so it has a 12” wide center brace.
I want to revisit the fact that this was a tank to be designed as a centerpiece in a not yet designed house. The client was willing to do and pay whatever necessary for a great reef tank.
Now, look at this. Here’s the access on the kitchen side:
Overbuilt on the framing. Takes what could be about a little over 2’ and shrinks it down to less than 15”. As I mentioned previously, they had all the room in the world above for canopy space (it goes up nearly 30” above the tank). But then they framed it all in and drywalled it...including above the tank...and killed all of that space. You can see where the shelf and one of the power strips is mounted...that’s just a hollow drywall box (that is filled with fiberglass insulation [lol]) than comes down to maybe 18” above the tank. There is a small space of about 10” where it’s open vertically (I somehow jammed a shelf for controllers and converters in that space).
It’s also built up about 8” from the top of the tank, which makes it even harder to access the tank. I can barely reach the bottom left corner of the tank.
Here’s where it starts to get good:
Here’s the living room side. See that red thing near the bottom left of the tank? That’s a ladder. Oh...by the way...it’s a 6’ ladder.
Let me repeat that. The bottom of the tank is 6’ off the floor on the living room side. Now, look at the opening. You can see that I only have a little over a foot of space to squeeze into in order to try to get into and work on a 38” deep tank...while standing on top of a 6’ ladder and breaking ladder rules by standing on the top step.
Now...look into the area in the back left corner. That is where this tank goes to the next level of bad.
Lol, good lord, that's like someone intentionally tried to make as wrong as possible.
Better be tall people to view it, and w/ a little person diver to access and maintain it!
Not that it matters, no form of drywall should be above, but just out of curiosity, did they at least use greenboard???
Better be tall people to view it, and w/ a little person diver to access and maintain it!
Not that it matters, no form of drywall should be above, but just out of curiosity, did they at least use greenboard???
Following...
Planning to get big custom made tank instead of small/ish one i have for now, in not too distant future, good to know what to keep in mind, if the goal is not to end up with a disaster, lol
Thanks for sharing!
Planning to get big custom made tank instead of small/ish one i have for now, in not too distant future, good to know what to keep in mind, if the goal is not to end up with a disaster, lol
Thanks for sharing!
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Greenboard? No. Why would you use water-resistant materials around an aquarium?
(sarcasm...if not obvious)
Lol, just had to satisfy my curiosity if they even tried just a little bit.
Did the homeowner look at his yearbook to see if the builder looks like someone they might have chased home from school way back when, stole a gf maybe?
Geez, it's so bad it almost seems intentional.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
I think the builder (on the cabinetry end) may have been a contractor working for the GC, but under the directive of the aquarium designer/installer.
Weird all the way around.
Drywall is odd enough. But then to put insulation behind it???
Anyway, just wait until I get into discussing that back left corner.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
I wanted to touch on this, because the grave is exactly where this tank was when I took it over.
This tank was being serviced by one of the bigger LFS/maintenance companies. I believe they were the 2nd company to maintain it after the client fired the original company.
Here is what I walked into, and what this client was paying ~$600-800/mo for:
A pile of live rock going halfway up the back corner, 2...get this...Rio 2500 pumps just dangling in the water, a few JBJ PCs, a colt coral that was about 10” tall, and a couple of sad toadstools. The sump? Probably 30 gallon sump with no protein skimmer.
It was pathetic.
rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
I feel you totally. Having owned a service company going on 5 years now, I feel your pain. Walked in on too many jobs where I have a hard time explaining to a customer that the 1 brown cabbage coral and 2 ragtag damsels in their 300 gallon in-wall are not rare and that pretty much all SW fish are quite capable of living more than a month in an aquarium. Its really sad when I give them a fair quote and find out they've been paying 20k+ a year for a tank that should run about 10k/year and look like a thriving vibrant reef at that pricepoint.
Don't get me started on the 7 to 10 year old sandbeds that have never been touched or all the external pumps plumbed without unions, ball valves, etc. Serviceability factor is zero on so many 'pro' designed systems its laughable.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
On one hand, I kind of understand the high rate of failure for professionally serviced reefs.
It’s hard enough to make reefs work when it’s yours and you see it and can work on it every day. It’s an entirely different game when you get, at most, an hour or so a week. Then, you have a lot of companies out there that view reefs as fish-only tanks with brighter lights. Then, you have service techs who understand the technical side, but not necessarily the biological and chemical side.
There’s a company near where I live that has a small store-front, but the bulk of their business is service. In their store, they have tons of really nice corals and seem to have their game on point. But in talking to them, more than 80% of their service customers are fish-only. Too hard to get and keep the things synced up that need to be in 2-4hrs a month.
But on the other hand, I get salty about the amount of money these companies take off from people with empty promises they have to know they can’t deliver. Don’t make promises you can’t keep...especially when they cost your clients a bunch of money, and then just as much money again to have somebody else come in and fix it.
jcl123
Active Member
When I was a teenager I worked in LFS for about 9 years and did some pro consulting on the side.
Sometimes it was good, and I was really able to help people. I did mostly freshwater with the occasional fish-only salt, reefs were not really a thing, at least in the area were I lived.
I have also done computer consulting (my primary profession)
But, in both cases, I had to stop because ultimately it became impossible to maintain expectations.
I found the wealthy people more difficult to get along with than the "normal" budget people.
Although I did have some occasional fun / interesting projects. Once did a "fish pond"... the house was low enough that they did not need a liner, the pond was 50' long by 25' wide by 12' deep. We dredged it out with backhoes and tractors, took around 2 years to cycle fully but then every "breeding cycle" there were thousands koi in the shallows from the adults that were in the pond, some of them almost 3' long. They wanted to see the fish because the water was a bit cloudy, so I setup an array of UV sterilizers and pool pumps in the shed they had nearby. It used allot of power but it actually worked.... and eventually didn't have to run it as much because apparently the other plants started to "out compete" the water-borne algae and it stayed mostly clear by itself. Thing is still going 30 years later.
Today I think I would be afraid to do consulting on reef tanks of any caliber. As good as the automation has become, I think it would still be way to easy for a tank crash to happen and get blamed for it, unless you had one heck of a disclaimer and only took customers who could understand the risks involved. And even then, I think you would have to stick with "easier" stuff that did not require daily attention. Even the rich people might not want to invest in all that automation. Maybe someday when the science and technology is much more clear cut than it is now.
I look at these pictures and I kind of shudder at being the one responsible for it. You are definitely brave and confident to take that on.....
-JCL
Sometimes it was good, and I was really able to help people. I did mostly freshwater with the occasional fish-only salt, reefs were not really a thing, at least in the area were I lived.
I have also done computer consulting (my primary profession)
But, in both cases, I had to stop because ultimately it became impossible to maintain expectations.
I found the wealthy people more difficult to get along with than the "normal" budget people.
Although I did have some occasional fun / interesting projects. Once did a "fish pond"... the house was low enough that they did not need a liner, the pond was 50' long by 25' wide by 12' deep. We dredged it out with backhoes and tractors, took around 2 years to cycle fully but then every "breeding cycle" there were thousands koi in the shallows from the adults that were in the pond, some of them almost 3' long. They wanted to see the fish because the water was a bit cloudy, so I setup an array of UV sterilizers and pool pumps in the shed they had nearby. It used allot of power but it actually worked.... and eventually didn't have to run it as much because apparently the other plants started to "out compete" the water-borne algae and it stayed mostly clear by itself. Thing is still going 30 years later.
Today I think I would be afraid to do consulting on reef tanks of any caliber. As good as the automation has become, I think it would still be way to easy for a tank crash to happen and get blamed for it, unless you had one heck of a disclaimer and only took customers who could understand the risks involved. And even then, I think you would have to stick with "easier" stuff that did not require daily attention. Even the rich people might not want to invest in all that automation. Maybe someday when the science and technology is much more clear cut than it is now.
I look at these pictures and I kind of shudder at being the one responsible for it. You are definitely brave and confident to take that on.....
-JCL
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
Brave...confident...dumb...delusional...desperate...insane.
Lot of descriptors work here
dantimdad
7500 Club Member
I think my sons said something similar about me when I got to work on the 150 nightmare. LOL!
jcl123
Active Member
I was trying to be nice, "friendly jabs" don't necessarily come through on forums with people you don't know in real life.
But glad we are on the same page ;-)
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