How can I best go about creating flow with only a single pump? (SPS dominated tank)

[SilvermistInc]

So I'm gonna be picking up a Marine X 60.2 from my LFS at a bargain price. I've got the lighting fixture from it. A T5 hybrid setup with a G6 Blue (check out the marketplace guys, there are some steals on there), and since lighting is pretty much down pat... What about flow? This tank is effectively gonna be acro heavy with maybe some montipora/birdsnests. But really I want to focus on the flow needs of the acros. The thing is... I want to have this tank to be the most crisp and clean tank I've EVER had. Which means, if possible, I want to avoid equipment inside the display. My problem is that I've never really done that before. Sure my biocube doesn't have any wavemakers. But it's basically just a FOWLR with GSP covering some rocks. That's not really a tank that is demanding constant water movement.

So I do have some basic idea of what I should do. I'm thinking of getting a Sicce Syncra Pro with a 1500GPH rating. I would imagine that would work. Combine that with a random flow nozzle from VCA and I should be set... Right? Well that's the thing. I have no clue. Does anybody else have a solid idea of what I may need? Do I need a bigger pump? Have you done this before and found what does and does not work? Honestly my main plan was to just put two gyres on the back wall and go nuts with the flow. But if I could get this to work with only the return pump for flow. Then holy crap, this opens up the possibility that I could have a sea hare in the tank. I mean, come on! How cool would that be?

Anyway, please feel free to give any advice that you feel may help. Thank you!

 

[mtraylor]

Well I'm not here to spoil your party, but I will share what knowledge I have on your idea.

First off. The tanks flow is limited to the drains. How many do you have and what size are they? Are you running herbie style etc? The basic concept is what goes up... must come down. You can then calculate how much max flow you can have.

Once you are done with that. You will quickly realize it will not be enough for sps dominant tank bur will be good exercise for you.

Your next option will be to go with closed loops. You can drill the tank for whatever setup you want. If that makes you squeamish...

Then you can go with your initial thought of the gyree pumps on back wall. Which is a good less hands on approach from closed loop

 

[SilvermistInc]

What's the math equation that I need to do to figure this out? I'm sure waterbox has their plumbing specs somewhere. So that information is available. I just need to know what numbers to plug into my calculator.

 

[DIFish]

So I'm gonna be picking up a Marine X 60.2 from my LFS at a bargain price. I've got the lighting fixture from it. A T5 hybrid setup with a G6 Blue (check out the marketplace guys, there are some steals on there), and since lighting is pretty much down pat... What about flow? This tank is effectively gonna be acro heavy with maybe some montipora/birdsnests. But really I want to focus on the flow needs of the acros. The thing is... I want to have this tank to be the most crisp and clean tank I've EVER had. Which means, if possible, I want to avoid equipment inside the display. My problem is that I've never really done that before. Sure my biocube doesn't have any wavemakers. But it's basically just a FOWLR with GSP covering some rocks. That's not really a tank that is demanding constant water movement.

So I do have some basic idea of what I should do. I'm thinking of getting a Sicce Syncra Pro with a 1500GPH rating. I would imagine that would work. Combine that with a random flow nozzle from VCA and I should be set... Right? Well that's the thing. I have no clue. Does anybody else have a solid idea of what I may need? Do I need a bigger pump? Have you done this before and found what does and does not work? Honestly my main plan was to just put two gyres on the back wall and go nuts with the flow. But if I could get this to work with only the return pump for flow. Then holy crap, this opens up the possibility that I could have a sea hare in the tank. I mean, come on! How cool would that be?

Anyway, please feel free to give any advice that you feel may help. Thank you!

Imo you need an in display wave maker. Return even with rfg probably won’t cut it and that’s too much flow through the sump I think. For one pump only you might consider a single gyre setup. Can even mount on the back glass if needed to hide it further. One pump will toss a sheet across the entire tank at that size.

 

[SilvermistInc]

Imo you need an in display wave maker. Return even with rfg probably won’t cut it and that’s too much flow through the sump I think. For one pump only you might consider a single gyre setup. Can even mount on the back glass if needed to hide it further. One pump will toss a sheet across the entire tank at that size.

That's exactly what my main plan is

 

[V A R I A N T]

Tunze Wavebox might be a solution

Comline Wavebox 6208

Generate strong standing waves in your 35 - 210 gallon saltwater aquarium with the Tunze Comline Wavebox 6208. A wavebox in a saltwater aquarium can create a beautiful standing wave, mimicking natures natural currents. Traditional powerheads require a lot of power to produce a true wave in your...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Dburr1014]

Seaswirl along with a rfg on the return would work. If you want to get even more fancy, have the power head turn on and off also. Very random.

 

[mtraylor]

Yeah that will be much easier. Waterbox will have it posted for you. If it's waterbox the sump will not allow you allot of flow through the sump due to the design.

As people already pointed out you don't want a bunch of flow through the sump anyway. That's not what it's for...but sometimes you have to learn that for yourself and try different things. If you want to go down this alley be sure that your tank is on a surface that is water resistant as you are most likely going to be spilling water in the floor during your experiment.

Since you have a stock sump it will be the choke spot for your flow I think. As you increase flow you need more water volume to go up/down into sump. Then when power is lost. All that water will go to the sump. If there is not enough space to hold the water in sump it will go to the floor. You will have to find sweet spot yourself.

Bottom line it's not going to work, but you can go through the exercise.

If you want to do flow. You will need to design a custom sump that has enough volume to hold all the water when power down etc running full tilt. Even if you do this. It will not be enough flow IMO. But that is what you will need to do.


Get yourself a couple random flow nozzles and see how it goes. I think there will be too many dead spots and you will need gyrees or something, but i will tag along to see how things work out. Maybe will learn something new.

Hope this helps.

 

[HBtank]

I can’t imagine a scenario where only a return pump would be sufficient for total flow. The drains are just not going to be sufficient enough, and the type of flow from nozzles, even if random, just isn’t broad enough. Also IME you just don’t want that much flow through a sump, I aim for like 5x the tank volume per hour, while most can be rated for more it will be noisy and just causes other issues IMO.

Something like 100x per hour turnover is a number people often have in terms of GPH inside a display. So for that tank the 1500 would not even be half that value, even if run at full (and it won’t due to head pressure and pipe losses anyway).

I don’t think a closed loop makes sense on small system like that.

If it were that simple (just a return pump), no one would be buying poweheads/wave makers.

 

[SPS2020]

It's a small tank, but you could place a gyre vertically on each corner of the back wall (two gyres total). I have a 60g with that configuration and it works well. On my 100g, I have two gyres on the top of the back wall and they also work equally well. Both are acro dominant tanks.

 

[92Miata]

If he doesn't want pumps in the tank, he's definitely not going to want a wavebox. They're cool, but they're eyesores.

I'd very much recommend against the Syncra Pro - Sicce's AC pumps are all loud, and $160 on a loud AC pump that's going to drop 110w of heat into your tank at all times is just a whole bunch of things you don't want on a tank this size (and 1500gph is too much).


If you're interesting in maximizing flow while minimizing the amount of stuff in the tank - eductors or the VCA type nozzles are the way you want to go (VCAs are just significantly less efficient slightly chaotic eductors) - they'll move significantly more water than just standard fan nozzles. That being said, I think you're going to find it tough with just the nozzles. Eductors basically create a restriction in your plumbing where pressure is traded for velocity (think like holding your finger over part of the hose) and then use the low pressure zones created by that velocity to suck in additional water. They move more water in the tank while moving less water through the tank.

Think about how you can place pumps where rocks are hiding them. And think about pumps like the Vortechs, or Jebao SLW style (or the neros, which are knockoffs of the jebaos), or RP-Ms, that sort of thing - with wide flow patterns. I'd personally avoid tunze - they make great pumps, but they tend to be physically larger, and a bit more focused - the narrow focus helps move water, but they're tough to aim in a way that isn't problematic in small tanks.

 

[SilvermistInc]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll just grab a sicce 3.0 for the pump and then rely on two jebao mcp90s for flow in the display.

 

[mtraylor]

Smart choice. Hopefully we gave you all the options so you can see the challanges and what's needed for a no pump in display design for later on.

This type of tank needs to be custom made and now you know the challanges. I have been there done that for small tanks and it can be fun. Lots of unions needed for this type of config.

Enjoy your great tank.

 

[SilvermistInc]

Sounds good man. Thanks a ton!

 

[ilikefish69]

I am looking forward to seeing it

 

[spsick]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll just grab a sicce 3.0 for the pump and then rely on two jebao mcp90s for flow in the display.

How did this work out for you?

 

[SilvermistInc]

How did this work out for you?

So funny story, I bought the tank two weeks ago when my tax return finally came in and... The tank came with the wrong sump parts. So I've been trying to get a replacement kit, however Waterbox is trying to get me to pay for the new parts... Even though they sent me the wrong parts originally. It's a bit of a mess right now.

 

[spsick]

Oof that’s frustrating.

 

[Maximitsurugi]

So funny story, I bought the tank two weeks ago when my tax return finally came in and... The tank came with the wrong sump parts. So I've been trying to get a replacement kit, however Waterbox is trying to get me to pay for the new parts... Even though they sent me the wrong parts originally. It's a bit of a mess right now I’m doing something similar to you soon but if I do paint the back wall black ( I’m still contemplating), I’ll use maybe two or three Jebao SLW-30 on the back glass. They’re like Neros and have a lower profile. I have a gyre already but not sure I’ll use it. I want to achieve the same goals as you. Let us know how that goes.

 

[Thor2j]

Many people don't have any idea how restrictive small returns are on a tank. You can't physically get more then about 650 gph through a 3/4" return. I know waterbox uses metric but I believe it 25mm at most and that's outside diameter. Inside is less then 3/4". Doesn't matter if you have a 10000 gph pump. Won't physically happen.
Beyond that, you are going to have to use multiple power heads if you want a thriving sps tank. I would have internal tank flow somewhere in the 5000-6000 gph range from as many directions as you can get.