How do I keep my nitrates and phosphates UP?

[dochou]

I've been dosing disodium phosphate and sodium nitrate to my 150 gal mixed reef tank with 8 small fish. I run a calcium reactor to keep CA and Alk up.
I have a reef octopus protien skimmer and no GFO or phosphate reducer. I do not have any macro algea in the refuge; I only have some live rock in there.
I've been dosing every other day for the past 6 months. I thought that after a couple months, I would not need to dose any more, but this is not the case.
Prior to dosing, I tried heavy feeding and reduced skimming but that didn't help any because the readings were still zero and zero.
The reason I wanted to raise these 2 parameters was to color up my SPS. The sps had horrible dull coloration. After dosig the colors have much improved over time.
One downside to adding nitrates and phosphates is brown algea on the sand and rock. I've employed CUC to help with that, but I wish I didn't need it.

So my question is: am I stuck dosing Nitrate and Phosphate forever???

pH:8.2
Phosphate .02 to .06 when dosing every other day; otherwise it's 0.
Nitrate: .2 to 2.5 when dosing every other day. otherwise it's also 0
Alkalinity: 8.0
Cal: 465
Mg: 1250

Thanks.

 

[lelandmarine]

Following

 

[BaysEndReef]

You could try adding fish to increase the bio load and decrease skimming.

 

[dochou]

You could try adding fish to increase the bio load and decrease skimming.

Thank you.
I've tried decreasing skimming but I don't think totally getting rid of skimming is healthy because it does allow larger particulate material to be removed.
I'm not interested in QTing a bunch of fish at the moment.
I tried feeding heavier and it doesn't help.

Any one else with suggestions?

 

[rubertoe93]

Of you have algae, in your sand Won’t that be consuming the nitrate and phosphate giving you false results?
i may be Wrong I’m not the most experienced as others, but arnt you just feeding the algea you don’t want? Increasing bio load may only cause problems down the line? Mabey just feed the coral more reef roids are packed with both?

 

[AdamD76]

Mollies in the sump. No QT needed.

 

[rubertoe93]

Mollies in the sump. No QT needed.

By adding mollies to the sump? How does It benefit the tank? Having some kind of ulitatrian in the sump is something I wouldn’t trying?

 

[homer1475]

Only other way is to add fish.

Fish poop = ammonia = nitrites = nitrates and/or phosphates(typically the phosphates come from adding in more food to feed more fish).

Either continue dosing, or add more fish. Only way, and honestly, adding more fish is heathier then dosing those 2 nutrients as your corals actually prefer ammonia.

 

[ScottR]

I've been dosing disodium phosphate and sodium nitrate to my 150 gal mixed reef tank with 8 small fish. I run a calcium reactor to keep CA and Alk up.
I have a reef octopus protien skimmer and no GFO or phosphate reducer. I do not have any macro algea in the refuge; I only have some live rock in there.
I've been dosing every other day for the past 6 months. I thought that after a couple months, I would not need to dose any more, but this is not the case.
Prior to dosing, I tried heavy feeding and reduced skimming but that didn't help any because the readings were still zero and zero.
The reason I wanted to raise these 2 parameters was to color up my SPS. The sps had horrible dull coloration. After dosig the colors have much improved over time.
One downside to adding nitrates and phosphates is brown algea on the sand and rock. I've employed CUC to help with that, but I wish I didn't need it.

So my question is: am I stuck dosing Nitrate and Phosphate forever???

pH:8.2
Phosphate .02 to .06 when dosing every other day; otherwise it's 0.
Nitrate: .2 to 2.5 when dosing every other day. otherwise it's also 0
Alkalinity: 8.0
Cal: 465
Mg: 1250

Thanks.

I read through this thread and I see you have a 150g with 8 small fish. What kind of fish? I know you don’t want to QT new fish but if you want a long term solution, adding more fish will help a lot.

 

[Thaxxx]

Like other have suggested.
More waste is needed.
You didn't say how much coral you have.
Your corals are taking up all the nutrients in the tank. They might color up better for you if you had more fish poop.
It might not be the answer you wanted, but it answers your question.

 

[dochou]

I read through this thread and I see you have a 150g with 8 small fish. What kind of fish? I know you don’t want to QT new fish but if you want a long term solution, adding more fish will help a lot.

Fish list:
1 med yellow tang
1 med blue hippo tang
1 strawberry basslette
2 mandarins
1 toby puffer
2 ocellaris clowns

I guess the tangs are not considered "small fish".

Question: My skimmer pulls out alot of fish poop and I have to clean out the collection cup every 3-4 days. It is dark thick stuff in the collection cup. So I'm not wet skimming. I have a Reef Octopus AC20287.
Should I try to run ever drier skimmate? or turn on the skimmer only for 12 hours per day?

 

[Bryknicks]

I had the same issue on my last build and like others have already said, adding fish is the way to go. I was tired of dosing nitrate and phosphate, feeding extra wasn't helping, and skimming dry helped but didn't solve the problem. I bit the bullet and added more fish and haven't looked back. I was able to stop dosing within a few days and now I keep nutrients where I want and all my acros colored up.

Edit: I'm now at 11 fish in a 65 gallon DT. So I would say you are very understocked.

 

[dochou]

I had the same issue on my last build and like others have already said, adding fish is the way to go. I was tired of dosing nitrate and phosphate, feeding extra wasn't helping, and skimming dry helped but didn't solve the problem. I bit the bullet and added more fish and haven't looked back. I was able to stop dosing within a few days and now I keep nutrients where I want and all my acros colored up.

Edit: I'm now at 11 fish in a 65 gallon DT. So I would say you are very understocked.

Ha ha; compared to you, yes I'm under stocked.

 

[Thaxxx]

Can you provide us any examples of this?

Fish list:
1 med yellow tang
1 med blue hippo tang
1 strawberry basslette
2 mandarins
1 toby puffer
2 ocellaris clowns

I guess the tangs are not considered "small fish".

Question: My skimmer pulls out alot of fish poop and I have to clean out the collection cup every 3-4 days. It is dark thick stuff in the collection cup. So I'm not wet skimming. I have a Reef Octopus AC20287.
Should I try to run ever drier skimmate? or turn on the skimmer only for 12 hours per day?

Either pull the cup off and run the skimmer for aeration only, or turn it off altogether. It's just taking what your dosing in right back out. Like pouring $ down the drain.

 

[LRT]

I solved my dosing issues by adding a Pufferfish. I got lucky as mine lives around clams,oysters,bivalves, mushrooms and he won't even look at them. I keep it fed very healthily lol.
Shrimp,Mysis,Krill,Carnivore diet,Squid and all of the above. He eats until he stops eating everyday thats when I know he's full. Sometimes a whole medium size shrimp.
Get a fish that eats and poops alot. Solved my issues with dosing.

 

[dochou]

I solved my dosing issues by adding a Pufferfish. I got lucky as mine lives around clams,oysters,bivalves, mushrooms and he won't even look at them. I keep it fed very healthily lol.
Shrimp,Mysis,Krill,Carnivore diet,Squid and all of the above. He eats until he stops eating everyday thats when I know he's full. Sometimes a whole medium size shrimp.
Get a fish that eats and poops alot. Solved my issues with dosing.

What kind of puffer do you have?
How often do you have to feed it?
Are there any other fish that eat alot?

 

[LRT]

What kind of puffer do you have?
How often do you have to feed it?
Are there any other fish that eat alot?

We got a porcupine puffer. Wife had to have one lol. Super cool fish with lots of personality. He will literally spit water at us to get attention and food.
Started as baby at 2 inches has doubled in size last 4 months and eats a ton.
There probably are alot of fish that eat alot.
You got some really good advice if you have a sump you can get creative thats where my puffer lived for first cpl months. Other people do mollies in sump. Lots of options.
Upping bioload, running skimmer without cup to let nutrients build. Some reefers even dump skimmate back into system to help build bioload.
A good fish or more fish that eat and poop alot is where you want to be though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and honestly, adding more fish is heathier then dosing those 2 nutrients as your corals actually prefer ammonia.

I prefer ice cream to broccoli. Is it healthier? lol

 

[Ravsta]

Same problem here. I have a 75 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump.

nitrates - <2ppm
Phosphates - 0
Calcium - 489
KH - 9
Mag - 1400
Salinity - 1.25
Skimmer - off for over 10 days now
Bio- Media - Maxspect Bio Spheres
No dosing of any kind

I’ve seriously ramped up feeding to 4 times per day from 2 per day. Also added 3 more fish. I’m going to keep adding fish until I get the right balance. I’m seriously lost as to why I have no phosphates and such low nitrates. I don’t grow any macro algae and no scrubbing.
Confused.

 

[Reefzilla]

I am facing the same problem as well. I have a 65 DT with 7 fish. I feed multiple foods such as Pellets, Flakes, Mysis, LRS, and Rods. I feel like when I feed, I am actually feeding to much. Part of my problem may be that I have spaghetti worms that are more than likely consuming any extra food on the sand bed. Also, I was running the skimmer 12 hours per day and just cut back to 8 hours per day. If I can help it, I would rather not dose anything. I was trying not to but after readings this along with other discussions, I will bite the bullet and start adding fish until my numbers go up.