How do I reduce (or remove) sump turbulence?

[Bars]

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about my overflow gurgling. I didn't have the space for like a durso, so I simply used a maggie muffler with a piece of airline tubing. The overflow itself is pretty much silent.

However, the end of the overflow pipe creates soooo much noise still. I get tons and tons of air bubbles in the sump which causes a lot of noise. I'd like to either reduce or completely remove the noise, but don't know how.

Right now my overflow pipe goes straight down into a 45 degree elbow, which connects to a small straight horizontal pipe, another 45 degree elbow downwards, a second straight piece of pipe and finally another 45 degree elbow underwater (see picture). I had to do some replumbing and couldn't get anything from the hardware stores due to my town being in lockdown, so I had to use what I've got.

Any ideas how to solve this? Replumbing again isn't a problem, I just have to wait ~ 3 more weeks until the hardware stores are open again.

 

[SPR1968]

Could you put the final pipe work a little deeper in the sump, or raise the water level a little ?

As a tempory noise fix you could put some filter wool around it maybe, just a thought

 

[Idoc]

The nose could be coming from that straight horizontal section of piping. Air can get trapped in there and cause noise. Any horizontal seconds must have a slightly downward angle to them to avoid this. Also, those are 90 degree elbows in the pic, not 45 degree elbows. Maybe design it with true 45 degree elbows.

Also, have the pipe extending into the sump water a few inches... that helps with noise a well.

 

[Bars]

Could you put the final pipe work a little deeper in the sump, or raise the water level a little ?

As a tempory noise fix you could put some filter wool around it maybe, just a thought

I used to have it deeper down a bit, which didn't do a whole lot to the noise unfortunately. Any deeper and water won't go through the pipe anymore if the return pump has been off and turns back on.

As for filter wool: I've tried it and that does reduce the bubbling a bit. Didn't use it for long though, as I was afraid of it clogging. Might as well do that again for the time being and clean/change it daily.

 

[Bars]

The nose could be coming from that straight horizontal section of piping. Air can get trapped in there and cause noise. Any horizontal seconds must have a slightly downward angle to them to avoid this. Also, those are 90 degree elbows in the pic, not 45 degree elbows. Maybe design it with true 45 degree elbows.

Also, have the pipe extending into the sump water a few inches... that helps with noise a well.

You're right, wasn't paying attention I guess

Do you think if I'd remove the horizontal tubing completely and just have it go straight down into the sump (perhaps with a 45 degree on the end under water?) it'd remove or reduce the noise?

 

[SPR1968]

I used to have it deeper down a bit, which didn't do a whole lot to the noise unfortunately. Any deeper and water won't go through the pipe anymore if the return pump has been off and turns back on.

As for filter wool: I've tried it and that does reduce the bubbling a bit. Didn't use it for long though, as I was afraid of it clogging. Might as well do that again for the time being and clean/change it daily.

You can leave it in place for a while you don’t need to change the wool every day.

I use wool as a final method of filtration in both systems, and it gets replaced probably monthly, when it starts to look unacceptably ‘brown’! Lol

On the pipe, if you can go straight down

 

[tsouth]

if air bubbles are coming from the pipe then try increasing the return, or decreasing the drain. The goal is to remove the air from the equation. I would recommend first trying to increase the return incrementally

 

[Idoc]

You're right, wasn't paying attention I guess

Do you think if I'd remove the horizontal tubing completely and just have it go straight down into the sump (perhaps with a 45 degree on the end under water?) it'd remove or reduce the noise?

My guess is that it would help. But definitely put a coupler at the end of the pipe so you can loosely attach a piece of pvc that goes a few inches into the sump water as well. This will allow you to remove that extra piece of pipe as needed to change file socks, etc...

 

[Idoc]

You're right, wasn't paying attention I guess

Do you think if I'd remove the horizontal tubing completely and just have it go straight down into the sump (perhaps with a 45 degree on the end under water?) it'd remove or reduce the noise?

Here's a picture of mine. Notice that lady piece of pvc going into the sump water. It's about 6 inches long...it is loosely connected into the coupler above it (not glued) so it can go deeper into a filter sock under water... reducing all water noise. When changing the sock (not shown in the pic), i just take off the pipe.

 

[Bars]

if air bubbles are coming from the pipe then try increasing the return, or decreasing the drain. The goal is to remove the air from the equation. I would recommend first trying to increase the return incrementally

Closes the valve reduces a lot, but not enough unfortunately. I'm guessing because of the horizontal tubing.

 

[Paul B]

Get some PVC window screening. Wrap a few layers of it around the outflow pipe. The water will diffuse through the screen and be totally quiet. I use it everywhere.

 

[Bars]

Here's a picture of mine. Notice that lady piece of pvc going into the sump water. It's about 6 inches long...it is loosely connected into the coupler above it (not glued) so it can go deeper into a filter sock under water... reducing all water noise. When changing the sock (not shown in the pic), i just take off the pipe.

Do you have any problems with water not going through the overflow pipe if your return pump has been off? Like I said, if my end pipe is too deep, water won't go down the overflow pipe after the return pump turns back on.

 

[Idoc]

Do you have any problems with water not going through the overflow pipe if your return pump has been off? Like I said, if my end pipe is too deep, water won't go down the overflow pipe after the return pump turns back on.

Part of that problem is possibly that horizontal section of pipe that may be holding air... and probably is due to the noise you're hearing... and is not allowing the max flow of water down to create the full siphon.

I have no problems with my full siphon going back to working after shutting off my return pump.

Putting your gate valve a little lower as well will help, but mine is actually close off the bulkhead and i have no problem.

Also, in your overflow, do you have your full siphon line at least 6" below the top water line? If not, that could be the problem as well. Here's a pic inside my overflow...

 

[tsouth]

Closes the valve reduces a lot, but not enough unfortunately. I'm guessing because of the horizontal tubing.

Open that drain valve back up and then try increasing the return pump power. Can you tell me if there is air going into your overflow drain? The drain hole should constantly be covered and not capturing any air bubbles from the waterfall, but not have the pump so powerful that it goes down the emergency pipe (if you have one). This would be your first step. Then we can adjust your valve on the drain side

 

[Bars]

Open that drain valve back up and then try increasing the return pump power. Can you tell me if there is air going into your overflow drain? The drain hole should constantly be covered and not capturing any air bubbles from the waterfall, but not have the pump so powerful that it goes down the emergency pipe (if you have one). This would be your first step. Then we can adjust your valve on the drain side

This is what it looks like with the valve fully opened and return pump at like 80%. It has always been like this, the pipe has always had this airpocket going all the way down.

 

[Bars]

Part of that problem is possibly that horizontal section of pipe that may be holding air... and probably is due to the noise you're hearing... and is not allowing the max flow of water down to create the full siphon.

I have no problems with my full siphon going back to working after shutting off my return pump.

Putting your gate valve a little lower as well will help, but mine is actually close off the bulkhead and i have no problem.

Also, in your overflow, do you have your full siphon line at least 6" below the top water line? If not, that could be the problem as well. Here's a pic inside my overflow...

I have just 1 pipe, which is max 2" below the water level. Got the tank second hand like this more than a year ago. The overflow chamber is extremely narrow, only leaving room for my current standpipe.

 

[Idoc]

I have just 1 pipe, which is max 2" below the water level. Got the tank second hand like this more than a year ago. The overflow chamber is extremely narrow, only leaving room for my current standpipe.

Looking at the pic you posted, your overflow is designed to use a Durso standpipe, not a full siphon line like a Herbie or Bean Animal style... mine is a Herbie style.

It would be extremely risky to run your system as a Herbie style without an emergency line!

A durso won't be dead silent, but it is probably what you need to setup.

Here a link to the the systems and how they are arranged...

Overflow Boxes and Drain Styles - Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal

Decide which of the three most common types of drains and overflow boxes is right for you and your tank.

blog.marinedepot.com

 

[xxkenny90xx]

How about a T before the drain hits the sump water. Air goes up, water goes down. No more bubbling. (Sorry my sump isn't as clean and new as some others )

 

[Bars]

Looking at the pic you posted, your overflow is designed to use a Durso standpipe, not a full siphon line like a Herbie or Bean Animal style... mine is a Herbie style.

It would be extremely risky to run your system as a Herbie style without an emergency line!

A durso won't be dead silent, but it is probably what you need to setup.

Here a link to the the systems and how they are arranged...

Overflow Boxes and Drain Styles - Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal

Decide which of the three most common types of drains and overflow boxes is right for you and your tank.

blog.marinedepot.com

I assumed I wouldn't have enough space to make a durso overflow... Looking at the picture though, it seems like all I need is a T piece and a 90 degree elbow piece, correct? My overflow chamber is ~8x8 with the standpipe exactly in the center, so not a whole lot of space unfortunately.

As for the risk using a full siphon without emergency pipe, I know. This is my first tank with sump and as I've read more and more about sump design and different overflow styles, I realize my system is less than optimal. I have another chamber to the right of the overflow chamber which is used for the return line. I could use that hole as an emergency drain, but that'd require draining the tank and cutting part of the glass.

 

[Idoc]

Yes, it would be an easy addition to make a durso system in your tank.

You could convert the return line to an emergency drain and then run an over the rim return line... that's what I did.

Is there a way to remove the separator between your 2 overflow compartments?