How do we increase biodiversity?

[Willbiker]

I won the war on Dino last month after fighting for two months. I Increased nitrate to 10 and phosphate to .05. Dosed Dino X until Dino started receding. As soon as it started receding I dosed bacteria (vibrant, Fritz turbo Start, and tims), started to add Copepods weekly, and fed phyto every other day. My belief is that whole dino are toxic to pods at least they eat the dino before dying. I culture them and simply out competed the dino that was already hurt by dino x. Today my tank is Dino free (though I have a little hair algae now) and my pod population is incredible.

Good luck with your battle! Watch those nutrients closely.

Great to hear your success story. I also am battling dinos and hsve raised nutrients. I added pods but after a few days I couldnt see a single one! Did you add to sump or DT? Where is the best place to add them how how did you add them?

 

[Willbiker]

Really overcomplicating this. Everytime you add livestock you are adding diversity. If you have added/are adding corals (or any substrate from another system... snails shell, rock, a few grains of stray sand, stony base of lps, frag plug/disk...any hard surface from another system) you have added diversity. If you haven't added corals why do you care (why do we care for a reef for that matter as long as what's there is completing the nitrogen cycle effectively). Bacteria in a bottle are completely unnecessary for biodiversity and most aren't made to be sustainable. If they are why would I need daily, weekly, monthly dosing. I should buy one 5ml shot in and let it proliferate under sustainable aquarium conditions. They do help for what they are targeted for short term (I used microbactor 7 daily and lights out for 48 hours and beat dino in both my tanks in less than a week of actively fighting it). Unless your going to dose forever that's not the long term fix. I have real live rock (from the ocean), live sand and probably added 20 frags/corals to both tanks.... Basically got active again before I got dinos. Don't think it had anything to do with diversity. One tank has been running 10 years and never had dinos until after I started adding diversity Had to do with 50% water changes and sparse feeding bottoming nitrates and phosphates out. Not enough there for the bacteria already present to outcompete dinos. Outcompeting dinos is probably more about the bacterial food source to allow bacteria to outcompete than trying to diversifying bacteria.

Im also dosing microbacter7 to try to beat dinos but weekly, not daily as per the instructions. I'm sure I can put more in to help but instructions say otherwise. How much were you dosing per day and what size is your system? Thanks!

 

[fishybizzness]

I think it's really important to keep a balanced healthy aquarium and introduce "friendly" bacteria that help fight off or outcompete the "unfriendly" bacteria. Probiotic Bacteria products can help balance the aquarium, but there's only one that I really trust and maybe a few that actually work. All the others are snake oil!!

If you don't mind me asking, which one do you trust?

 

[homer1475]

All bottled bacteria = snake oil, unless your cycling the tank.

Nitrifying bacteria are already present in your system if it's properly cycled. All your adding is more nitrifying bacteria(just read the bottle on whats in it. Typically nitrosomas(sp?) bacteria) which is pretty pointless as the population in the tank is already at an equilibrium.

Never once saw any improvement from adding bacteria in a bottle during a fight with Dino's. And I've fought dino's many times. Only thing that has every worked for me is increasing nutrients, 3 days blackout, and slow flow through a UV.

No such thing as adding biodiversity with bottle bacteria. All the bacteria in the bottle is already present in your system and all are naturally occurring bacteria that will naturally populate given time.

Of course this is all my own opinion, and experience.

 

[homer1475]

Similiar to a recent thread where everyone wants to eradicate bristle worms. Part of the biodiversity to owning a THRIVING reef tank.

 

[Willbiker]

I'm not sure what to believe as many swear by the bottled bacteria and many don't. The first bit of advice I got was add a uv, keep your nutrients above 0 and leave your tank to mature and I think this is the best advice. It looks ugly but it will go eventually. You can help it along by vacuuming and blackouts but at the end of the day...control the nutrients and after time you will eventually control the dino.

 

[Reefahholic]

If you don't mind me asking, which one do you trust?

I trust all of Dr. Tim's products.

 

[Sump Crab]

i think tbs shut down until there isn't a risk for covid

Are you sure? I received an order from them during covid.

 

[homer1475]

@liverock(Tampa Bay Saltwater) is only shutdown due to weather conditions. He hasn't been able to dive since covid hit because of the weather.

He actually has a thread in general about it.

 

[Paul B]

I live on Long Island. Should I take a trip to the beach tomorrow to get a bit of sand and try to find some critters? Or bad idea?? Lol

If you live on Long Island as I do, there is no problem. Go to any beach on the north shore, especially under bridges or boat ramps and pick up some mud or porous rocks. I have been doing that for over 50 years. No problem yet.
I don't understand why people are afraid to put life from the sea into their tank. It boggles my mind so my mind is pretty boggled. :oops:

 

[Reefahholic]

All bottled bacteria = snake oil, unless your cycling the tank.

Nitrifying bacteria are already present in your system if it's properly cycled. All your adding is more nitrifying bacteria(just read the bottle on whats in it. Typically nitrosomas(sp?) bacteria) which is pretty pointless as the population in the tank is already at an equilibrium.

Never once saw any improvement from adding bacteria in a bottle during a fight with Dino's. And I've fought dino's many times. Only thing that has every worked for me is increasing nutrients, 3 days blackout, and slow flow through a UV.

No such thing as adding biodiversity with bottle bacteria. All the bacteria in the bottle is already present in your system and all are naturally occurring bacteria that will naturally populate given time.

Of course this is all my own opinion, and experience.

Respectfully, I disagree.

There is a company (AquaBiome) that is testing this right now and has documented evidence.

AquaBiome: Can Reefers Benefit from an ‘ICP Test’ for Bacteria? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

AquaBiome is a new company that is offering a novel kind of water test for our reef aquariums, one that gives some practical measurement and analysis of the microbiology of our captive reef ecosystems.

reefbuilders.com

Problems Due to Bacterial Imbalances? AquaBiomics Test Results.

I received results from AquaBiomics showing bacteria populations in my reef tank. As it turned out, this test shows my tank has bacteria indicative of a mature reef - a total of 442 bacteria types were found with a diversity score of .92 (on a scale of 0 to 1.0.) Interestingly, nitrifying...

www.reef2reef.com

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

reefs.com

 

[homer1475]

Respectfully, I disagree.

There is a company (AquaBiome) that is testing this right now and has documented evidence.

AquaBiome: Can Reefers Benefit from an ‘ICP Test’ for Bacteria? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

AquaBiome is a new company that is offering a novel kind of water test for our reef aquariums, one that gives some practical measurement and analysis of the microbiology of our captive reef ecosystems.

reefbuilders.com

Problems Due to Bacterial Imbalances? AquaBiomics Test Results.

I received results from AquaBiomics showing bacteria populations in my reef tank. As it turned out, this test shows my tank has bacteria indicative of a mature reef - a total of 442 bacteria types were found with a diversity score of .92 (on a scale of 0 to 1.0.) Interestingly, nitrifying...

www.reef2reef.com

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

reefs.com

While I don't disagree with you(I've read those threads) about biodiversity, I just don't think, and in my experience, bottled bacteria doesn't add much to an already established system.

 

[Reefahholic]

While I don't disagree with you(I've read those threads) about biodiversity, I just don't think, and in my experience, bottled bacteria doesn't add much to an already established system.

Fair enough. :-)

 

[Sump Crab]

If you live on Long Island as I do, there is no problem. Go to any beach on the north shore, especially under bridges or boat ramps and pick up some mud or porous rocks. I have been doing that for over 50 years. No problem yet.
I don't understand why people are afraid to put life from the sea into their tank. It boggles my mind so my mind is pretty boggled. :oops:

The more critters the merrier! If people wrapped their heads around the idea that a biologically diverse system has the tools built into it to naturally control populations of "pests" they would be more apt to subscribe to the methods you and I use. The ocean has only been doing it for billions of years....

 

[fluked]

I had a decent case of dinos when my tank was just starting, i followed the 3 day dr tims approach, but used waste away and some other brand of bottled bac instead of one and only, had very few dinos at the end, so just kept dosing waste away and they are visbly gone now still.

 

[Reefahholic]

One thing to consider. Skimmers

The more critters the merrier! If people wrapped their heads around the idea that a biologically diverse system has the tools built into it to naturally control populations of "pests" they would be more apt to subscribe to the methods you and I use. The ocean has only been doing it for billions of years....

I’d love to use some more live rock. It was quite nice. The problem is it brought me all kind of pests. So now it’s back to dry rock and bottled bacteria and grabbing little bits and pieces of biodiversity as I go.

The funny thing is me and another guy were talking about where we could get some live sand and live mud that did not contain Vermetid snails. I researched that whole night and could not find one place in the world that didn’t have Vermetid’s.

Those little turds are microscopic too!

 

[AquaBiomics]

What are methods you are using to help increase biodiversity in your reef? All suggestions are appreciated.

I am trying to fight dinos and from what I’ve read- increasing biodiversity is key.

Hopefully this opens some good discussions

Live sand, live mud, and live rock. There is good evidence that all three of these increase biodiversity.

If your goal is to increase biodiversity, ignore any product that comes in a bottle.

 

[Sump Crab]

I think one of the important notes to make is that the highly controlled approach of dosing various chemicals and strict qt procedures to create a relatively sterilized and clean system can create some of the most visually beautiful reefs out there. That's a fact.

The issue to me is the longevity of such a system. What happens when you get sick? Go out of town? Lose interest for a few months? A reef that is completely dependent upon your constant care and intervention can crash so very easily. The moment you lose focus the tank reverts to an ugly mess.

On the flip side a tank that follows the philosophy of people like myself and @Paul B can basically take care of itself. No dosing, very very few water changes, no battling issues. Just an ATO and food for the fish is really needed besides the aquarium equipment necessary to sustain life. You can go out of town for a month or lose interest for 6 months yet the tank remains stable and beautiful. This is perhaps the greatest benefit to running a more "naturally diverse" system IMO.

 

[PranK]

I'm wondering if you guys that collect are collecting from similar-temp water ?
In Sydney the water is far too cold for anything from the reef to survive (actually, I lie. Despite our water being ~18C/65F there have been colonies of pocillopora discovered on some Sydney beach rocks - signs of increasing temp no doubt, but I digress) I am worried about collecting things that will not be happy in +8C/46F temp. No doubt they'd likely survive, but I want them to be happy, not just alive.

 

[Sump Crab]

One thing to consider. Skimmers

consider in which way?