How do you guys actually verify coral lineage?

[ReefRegistry]

I've noticed a lot of high-end coral sales seem to rely on screenshots, old messages, or word of mouth.

For those who care about lineage:

How do you personally determine whether a lineage claim is legitimate?

Have you ever purchased a coral and later questioned the lineage?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I think Coral Lineage is neat. However, I don't look into it too much, nor does it affect whether I buy the coral. If I like the coral, then I'm going to get it, regardless of lineage

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I've noticed a lot of high-end coral sales seem to rely on screenshots, old messages, or word of mouth.

For those who care about lineage:

How do you personally determine whether a lineage claim is legitimate?

Have you ever purchased a coral and later questioned the lineage?

This has been a hill to die on for a long time with me. The only real way if to be a first hand buyer from the "source". And that dies with you. Corals and frags dont have any tags, branding, identifiers, tracking, registry, or anything even remotely close to consider lineages anything but a marketing and price gouging mechanism.

Bluntly, the closest that anything ahs come is ORA growing their frags on the AWFUL hard plastic that couldnt be cut except with a plasma cutter (LOL). Those plugs were so unique if a coral was on one, there was a "good chance" it was sourced from ORA. Not bulletproof but I think thats as close as we got.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I think Coral Lineage is neat. However, I don't look into it too much, nor does it affect whether I buy the coral. If I like the coral, then I'm going to get it, regardless of lineage

I agree and would put this footnote on your statement. Coral names ruin the hobby and muddy the market, because of greed and inherent fraud. If I like a coral, I'll buy it. Not based off lineage, NOR name.

 

[c4haskett]

I make them slime up to get a sample and then I send that collection off to ancestry.com

 

[ReefRegistry]

This has been a hill to die on for a long time with me. The only real way if to be a first hand buyer from the "source". And that dies with you. Corals and frags dont have any tags, branding, identifiers, tracking, registry, or anything even remotely close to consider lineages anything but a marketing and price gouging mechanism.

Bluntly, the closest that anything ahs come is ORA growing their frags on the AWFUL hard plastic that couldnt be cut except with a plasma cutter (LOL). Those plugs were so unique if a coral was on one, there was a "good chance" it was sourced from ORA. Not bulletproof but I think thats as close as we got.

That's kind of where my head is at too. Once the coral changes hands a few times, the lineage often becomes screenshots, memory, and trust.

If there was a way to track ownership over time, would that make lineage more meaningful to you, or do you think it's impossible once it leaves the original source?

 

[ReefRegistry]

I think Coral Lineage is neat. However, I don't look into it too much, nor does it affect whether I buy the coral. If I like the coral, then I'm going to get it, regardless of lineage

That's fair. I think a lot of hobbyists feel the same way.

Do you think it would matter more on higher-end pieces, or would it still not influence your decision?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

That's fair. I think a lot of hobbyists feel the same way.

Do you think it would matter more on higher-end pieces, or would it still not influence your decision?

It wouldn't influence mine. Name is not important to me. I do see why some people would care, but to me, I don't. If I can get a coral for $20 that looks identical to the $100 one, I'm going with the $20 option.

 

[ReefRegistry]

I agree and would put this footnote on your statement. Coral names ruin the hobby and muddy the market, because of greed and inherent fraud. If I like a coral, I'll buy it. Not based off lineage, NOR name.

That's actually part of what got me thinking about this topic in the first place.

A lot of the skepticism seems to come from how difficult it is to verify lineage once a coral changes hands multiple times.

 

[ReefRegistry]

I make them slime up to get a sample and then I send that collection off to ancestry.com

If Ancestry starts supporting coral DNA, we're all in trouble

 

[ReefRegistry]

It wouldn't influence mine. Name is not important to me. I do see why some people would care, but to me, I don't. If I can get a coral for $20 that looks identical to the $100 one, I'm going with the $20 option.

That's fair, and I think a lot of us probably feel the same way.

For me, the interesting question is whether lineage only matters when people are paying a premium for a specific named coral.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

I think it matters more to those who are looking to also sell frags in the future. Not always but probably more so than the regular hobbyist. There are exceptions.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

That's fair, and I think a lot of us probably feel the same way.

For me, the interesting question is whether lineage only matters when people are paying a premium for a specific named coral.

I think it can 100% matter for those who are paying top dollar for some frags. "Coral collectors" is the term I like to use. If you are someone who is going for the rarer acro species or maybe a specific torch, I could see the name/lineage being important to know.

 

[ReefRegistry]

I think it matters more to those who are looking to also sell frags in the future. Not always but probably more so than the regular hobbyist. There are exceptions.

I can definitely understand that! It seems like lineage may matter less for enjoying a coral in your own tank and more for preserving provenance when that coral gets traded or sold down the road.

 

[ReefRegistry]

I think it can 100% matter for those who are paying top dollar for some frags. "Coral collectors" is the term I like to use. If you are someone who is going for the rarer acro species or maybe a specific torch, I could see the name/lineage being important to know.

I think that's a fair distinction. Someone buying a coral because they love how it looks may not care much about lineage, while a collector paying a premium for a specific piece probably cares a lot more about provenance and history.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

That's kind of where my head is at too. Once the coral changes hands a few times, the lineage often becomes screenshots, memory, and trust.

If there was a way to track ownership over time, would that make lineage more meaningful to you, or do you think it's impossible once it leaves the original source?

I just dont see it as possible. In the zoological institutions, organisms are assigned universally used ID numbers which are in a registry database. However, corals are asexually produced (typically). Aside from empritically identifying them to species, I dont see how any further identifiiers could be applied. It would 100% solely rely on trust.

In example, lets say I but an Acropora horrida from seller Joe. Joe has "named" this coral as Joes horrida. The piece I have has no connection to Joes unlss I have a recipt, and even thats dubious. If Im EVER choosing to grow/sell/give this coral to another source, what way could I ever show that the coral I have, indeed was that same Joes horrida? Theres no tag, no microchip, no marking. Theres just the visual appearance, and the trust that its the same one I got from Joe. And if thats what were going on, then we should just buy what we like, and not even bother with trying to claim any lineages. Because fraud and dishonesty are abound, and they always will be. And if it cant be kept in check, it'll just get worse.

 

[Bear22]

Realistically, how would anyone verify a coral "lineage" through some means of eDNA archival that doesn't even exist?

Secondly, there's a much greater than average chance that XYZ premium piece of coral is not going like the image of the coral -as purchased- within months or even weeks after it's been in the new environment in terms of growth, coloration, etc.

 

[JeffB418]

This just feels like a pushed discussion to advertise your product without being a sponsor BTW

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've noticed a lot of high-end coral sales seem to rely on screenshots, old messages, or word of mouth.

For those who care about lineage:

How do you personally determine whether a lineage claim is legitimate?

Have you ever purchased a coral and later questioned the lineage?

I’ve never once cared about a coral lineage. I just want to know how it will look and thrive in my tank. :)

 

[BryanM]

I've noticed a lot of high-end coral sales seem to rely on screenshots, old messages, or word of mouth.

For those who care about lineage:

How do you personally determine whether a lineage claim is legitimate?

Have you ever purchased a coral and later questioned the lineage?

I would have to trust the reseller.

I also don't really care, I'm not searching out these types of corals/critters.