How long is too long for Nitrite cycle?

[cet98]

Dosed Brightwell Microbacter QuikCycl & Start XLM on July 26th and saw 2ppm of Ammonia drop in a couple days and Nitrite raise to 5ppm by Aug 1st…..

Well, as of today (Aug 13th) my Nitrite reading continues to be 5ppm….

How long does it typically take for Nitrites to be converted into Nitrate?

Thanks

 

[Miami Reef]

Not sure, but nitrite isn’t toxic in seawater, so proceed like it doesn’t exist.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It sometimes is slow. As noted, just ignore it.

 

[twentyleagues]

As @Randy Holmes-Farley and @Miami Reef said its not toxic in saltwater at typical levels. They both have a better understanding on this than I do. I did find a lot of new info when I got back in the hobby after 12years away. This was one thing that had changed since I last started a reef tank in like 2002 lol. While researching during my recent cycle about 2 years ago I did find that nitrite reducing bacteria need phosphates to grow and use the nitrite. Am I saying or explaining that properly not sure I'm not a chemist. I did get confirmation from @Lasse that this is indeed the fact, or should I say thought( I dont know its fact but seems to me to be true). During my cycle I saw the same thing used the same stuff you did had the exact same results. I added some reef roids as an "experiment" and the following day nitrite had decreased from 5ppm to about 3ppm. I waited a day or 2 and it stayed steady at 3ppm. I added some more rr and again saw a decrease the next day. This continued until all nitrite was gone. Did I need to do that? No. Regardless of nitrites toxicity or lack there of in saltwater I wanted a robust ecosystem that could handle ammonia and nitrite. With the talk thats been going around lately in 10 years we probably wont even be cycling reef tanks anymore just filling them with corals and a few fish to start and dosing phosphates and ammonia to keep the corals happy.

 

[Miami Reef]

Yes, nitrite is definitely toxic in seawater… You’d just need to be well over 100 ppm. lol
The truth is nitrite will likely never reach toxicity levels before the bacteria take over and bring it down.

This article has more info and a chart of some tested organisms. Hint: clownfish needed over 300 ppm for toxicity to occur.

https://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php#6

 

[twentyleagues]

Yes, nitrite is definitely toxic in seawater… You’d just need to be well over 100 ppm. lol
The truth is nitrite will likely never reach toxicity levels before the bacteria take over and bring it down.

This article has more info and a chart of some tested organisms. Hint: clownfish needed over 300 ppm for toxicity to occur.

https://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php#6

Not that I want to side track this and yes I know and understand nitrite is not toxic at levels most of us would achieve, but would there be a biological advantage to waiting vs not. I mean like I said above sooner or later the "meta" may be to just get a bunch of corals and a few fish to start your tank from dose ammonia or nitrate and phosphate no cycle needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I mean like I said above sooner or later the "meta" may be to just get a bunch of corals and a few fish to start your tank from dose ammonia or nitrate and phosphate no cycle needed.

If you do not have fish, or start without them, that may be a fine plan and many folks do it for frag tanks. :)

 

[twentyleagues]

If you do not have fish, or start without them, that may be a fine plan and many folks do it for frag tanks. :)

What if you do have fish, just not many? Build the fish population slow but with a decent coral load.

 

[cet98]

Thank you all, but I am a bit confused by your comments.
As I know it, cycling an aquarium consists of converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate…
With my tank still showing 5ppm (or higher since the test kit maxs out at 5ppm) conventional wisdom says that my aquarium has not completed its cycle.
I did test for Nitrates this morning and the result was 40ppm, so it appears that the bacteria are converting nitrites at this time but I presume that waiting for the cycle to complete is the correct method prior to a WC and adding and livestock…

Am I completely wrong or just missing something?

Thanks

 

[Fish Fan]

With my tank still showing 5ppm (or higher since the test kit maxs out at 5ppm) conventional wisdom says that my aquarium has not completed its cycle.

I'm sorry you're still having some trouble. You're already getting great replies from much more knowledgable reefers than I am, so please follow their advice.

But in an effort to help, you are correct that conventional wisdom says that you need to wait for your nitrite to drop to zero, and that nitrite is very toxic to livestock. That is indeed old-school advice brought over from freshwater fish keeping, where in freshwater nitrite is indeed toxic. However, in saltwater tanks, nitrite is completely nontoxic in the concentrations that we see in our aquaria (like your 5.0 ppm). You can safely and literally ignore nitrite altogether in marine tanks, and many here at R2R don't bother testing for it at all.

@Randy Holmes-Farley and @Miami Reef can explain the details much better than I can, but here's a post with a link to an article RHF wrote on nitrite toxicity in marine aquaria if you're interested in learning more about it:
https://www.reef2reef.com/posts/4805029/
I hope that helps, let us know if you still have any questions, and good luck!

 

[BryanM]

FWIW, I had similar concerns, after my tank was cycled I was still getting 14ppb nitrite, and I received the same advice you are getting - Ignore it.

So I did, and everything worked out just fine.

 

[Miami Reef]

Nitrite can cause a large false positive in nitrate test kits. Ignore the nitrate kit for now; it’s inaccurate.

Did you ever add live rock, snail shells, or a coral frag? Anything that will carry some diversity and bacteria?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What if you do have fish, just not many? Build the fish population slow but with a decent coral load.

That can work. I think there are lots of ways to start a tank that do not involve traditional “cycling”.

 

[cet98]

Thank you all again for your replies.

It’s interesting to see how the cycling process has changed over the years. It becomes more hazy as manufacturers, such as Brightwell and others, continue to instruct users of their products to adhere to the old school processes.
As per Brightwell, they instructs you to wait until ammonia and nitrate are at zero ppm. Only then do they tell you to test for nitrate and then perform a large water change.

@Miami Reef …. no I do not have any live rock or substrate. I went with BRS’s recommendation and purchased the Brightwell Microbacter Dry Rock Starter kit which, as you guess it, requires no live rock or sand to facilitate a completed cycle. Additionally there is no lighting on, no skimmer and no mechanical filter media as well. There is strictly dry rock, substrate, heat and flow.

So if I am understanding correctly, I should move forward with adding fish and/or coral at this point?

If so, I presume I should continue to test all water parameters, correct?

 

[Fish Fan]

As per Brightwell, they instructs you to wait until ammonia and nitrate are at zero ppm. Only then do they tell you to test for nitrate and then perform a large water change.

There's two things at play here; from the point of view of nitrite being nontoxic and of no concern, this would indeed be old-school advise by Brightwell. However, when you have nitrite, it interferes with testing for nitrate, causing an artificially high result for nitrate. For that reason, you can't know the real concentration of nitrate until your nitrite goes to zero. From that point of view, Brightwell's advice is sound

I hope that helps!

 

[Miami Reef]

@Miami Reef …. no I do not have any live rock or substrate. I went with BRS’s recommendation and purchased the Brightwell Microbacter Dry Rock Starter kit which, as you guess it, requires no live rock or sand to facilitate a completed cycle. Additionally there is no lighting on, no skimmer and no mechanical filter media as well. There is strictly dry rock, substrate, heat and flow.

Hmm. That’s a shame. I don’t think I like that method. Anyway, add a fish. Also try to add some sort of coral that has some coralline on the plug or that has a skeleton. Snail shells can work, too. You can’t keep a tank sterile forever. Why delay the maturity process?

The lack of biodiversity from that bacterial bottle likely led to an under supply of nitrobacter/nitrospira, the bacteria responsible for converting nitrite into nitrate.

 

[BryanM]

Thank you all again for your replies.

It’s interesting to see how the cycling process has changed over the years. It becomes more hazy as manufacturers, such as Brightwell and others, continue to instruct users of their products to adhere to the old school processes.
As per Brightwell, they instructs you to wait until ammonia and nitrate are at zero ppm. Only then do they tell you to test for nitrate and then perform a large water change.

@Miami Reef …. no I do not have any live rock or substrate. I went with BRS’s recommendation and purchased the Brightwell Microbacter Dry Rock Starter kit which, as you guess it, requires no live rock or sand to facilitate a completed cycle. Additionally there is no lighting on, no skimmer and no mechanical filter media as well. There is strictly dry rock, substrate, heat and flow.

So if I am understanding correctly, I should move forward with adding fish and/or coral at this point?

If so, I presume I should continue to test all water parameters, correct?

If you have an LFS, do they have real live rock that's been cycling/stable? You could buy one or two pieces of that and put it in the tank.... This might prove extremely beneficial.

 

[cet98]

@Miami Reef …yes, I see your point regarding this method. The truth is that I have so much dry rock and substrate and wanted to start pest-free on this aquarium, and this method was advertised strongly with BRS as a great, clean way of starting an aquarium as such. With Brightwell having replaced my original bottle of Start XLM because they determined that my first bottle was DOA, I can absolutely see your point regarding a lack of viable beneficial bacteria surviving during the shipping once again.


@BryanM ….thanks and yes I have looked at live rock at a couple of LFS in my area and to be honest, their rocks look just awful. They look like man-made concrete blocks full of algae, detritus and aiptasia. And on top of that they are asking unreasonably high prices for it. Nothing I want to introduce into my system.

I am going to see if there are any local reefers in my area that can sell me a small quality piece of LR and then introduce a pair of clownfish to my tank.

I hope I’m going in the right direction now.

Thank you all :)

 

[vittpsu21]

So I’ve read through these reply’s, and I understand what you are all saying to ignore it. As someone who is also cycling their tank, when does that mean I should do my “test” to dose 2ppm Ammon and see if it drops to under 0.2 in 24 hours? I should do that when Ammon hits 0.5 like doctor time site suggests?

 

[Miami Reef]

With Brightwell having replaced my original bottle of Start XLM because they determined that my first bottle was DOA, I can absolutely see your point regarding a lack of viable beneficial bacteria surviving during the shipping once again.

I don’t believe it’s the shipping that caused the lack of bacteria. Many bottled bacteria solution have been tested, and most did not have the advertised strains. I understand the fear of adding pests, but I would still find a way to get something live in there. It will need to happen eventually. Pests usually hitchhike on corals.