How much aggression is normal?

[siniang]

Soooo, I may or may not have a situation here.

Upon recommendation, I've gotten a lawnmower blenny together with my rectangle trigger, because he "can handle" a trigger fish. Well, they do ignore each other for the most part. I've seen the humu mock-charge and click towards the blenny a few times, but nothing particularly hostile (and mostly over food, which is to be expected). However, I've just seen the blenny go literally ballistic towards the humu for the second time in two days (which doesn't mean it hasn't happened before, I may have just not seen it). Both times the humu was eyeing the blenny, but not attacking, when the blenny suddenly would actually jump towards/into the trigger. The humu is uninjured (I do think I see a "kiss" marks on one side, though) and doesn't seem to care any further (he also didn't attack back).

Now, I'm actually worried for my trigger. Can the blenny critically hurt the trigger or is it more flashing than anything? How much damage can that little blenny mouth do? Of course I started googling and read all those horror stories about blennies killing other fish ...

Or is just a tiny bit of aggression normal in a predator tank? They're not constantly aggressive towards each other, as I said, they do ignore each other 99% of the time. I'm worried a bout that 1% and whether it potentially could do fatal damage... They are about the same size and have been together for 1.5 weeks now and moved in together. I already moved the blenny's rock away from the humu's area (because OF COURSE he had to move in right next door), but the blenny is all over the tank and while the first time he actually defended his rock, the second time today was from somewhere else

 

[Tahoe61]

That particular Trigger is going to be an issue in that 40 gallon breeder.

This concern would be alleviated by re-homing the Trigger to a more appropriate tank size.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I would not be worried about that trigger. Their bodies are made like tanks. I would be shocked if the blenny causes any serious damage, unless he attacks an eye or gills. Also if pushed hard enough the trigger will snap and end the blenny.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Blennies maintain a territory. A 40g doesn't leave much space for a trigger to escape the blenny's attacks, though in a larger tank that behavior would not be concerning.

 

[HB AL]

Sounds like the trigger is tolerating the blenny, if he gets tired of it he will bite back. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[Shrimpinator123]

As mentioned above, the blenny is going to harm that trigger. Honestly, I would expect more aggression from the guy. The min tank size on a humu is 180.

 

[siniang]

As mentioned above, the blenny is going to harm that trigger. Honestly, I would expect more aggression from the guy. The min tank size on a humu is 180.

The blenny is or is not going to harm the trigger? More aggression from whom?

I've been watching them all day for the past few days and except the very occasional "click" from the humu, they literally ignore each other. Also it seems like the blenny knows his place. He's made himself a little cave where he darts into if the humu charges. I haven't seen any more ballistic charges from the blenny. Doesn't seem very aggressive to me from either of them.

As I've said multiple times, they will be re-homed eventually. We talked about this in the other thread. Also, they do have a lot of space in the tank which they don't use - they choose to sit on - and ignore - each other.

 

[Shrimpinator123]

Typo, it isn't. More aggression from the trigger.

 

[siniang]

2 months in and I think they've come to terms with each other. Sometimes the humu would gently chase away the blenny from "his rock", but that's as much aggression as I see. As I said, for the most part, they do ignore each other. No more witnessed attacks from the blenny.

The blenny often "jumps" and the humu always ends up looking surprised - sometimes eyeing the blenny while sitting on his nose, tail up (which is cute, can't deny it), but again, nothing ever happens and those jumps never trigger (no pun intended) any aggression from the trigger.

 

[colin obrien]

the tank size isn't an issue, humu triggers grow VERY slowly at maybe a 1/4" every year and it slows down as they get bigger. it will take 15 20 years before the trigger needs a larger home. but the trigger is fine, very tough fish its just tolerating the blenny but if the trigger wanted to it could kill the blenny in less than 30 seconds

 

[eatbreakfast]

the tank size isn't an issue, humu triggers grow VERY slowly at maybe a 1/4" every year and it slows down as they get bigger. it will take 15 20 years before the trigger needs a larger home. but the trigger is fine, very tough fish its just tolerating the blenny but if the trigger wanted to it could kill the blenny in less than 30 seconds

While huma huma triggers don't grow super fast, their growth rate is certainly faster than 1/4" a year. If it is growing that slowly then it's growth is stunted.

 

[colin obrien]

While huma huma triggers don't grow super fast, their growth rate is certainly faster than 1/4" a year. If it is growing that slowly then it's growth is stunted.

im telling you man look it up it might even be less than that. humu triggers have an extremely fast metabolism and need to eat A LOT to maintain good health. but im telling you man im not the only one that has experienced such slow growth from humu triggers

 

[eatbreakfast]

im telling you man look it up it might even be less than that. humu triggers have an extremely fast metabolism and need to eat A LOT to maintain good health. but im telling you man im not the only one that has experienced such slow growth from humu triggers

I have a few tanks with humas in them. They are growing around 2" every year, that's 8x's faster you are saying. Now am not saying that isn't what people are experiencing, but that just means the slower growth rate is from being stunted. Stunted growth is most often from tanks too small and usually poor water quality associated with smaller volume.

 

[colin obrien]

I have a few tanks with humas in them. They are growing around 2" every year, that's 8x's faster you are saying. Now am not saying that isn't what people are experiencing, but that just means the slower growth rate is from being stunted. Stunted growth is most often from tanks too small and usually poor water quality associated with smaller volume.

I assure you a 125 is plenty big for a 3.5'' fish. crystal clear water and haven't bothered to test the water in years. but they have research supporting my claim. I know the growth rate between male and female is different, with the male typically growing a little faster. they do grow very fast until they reach 2.5'' then it slows down a lot more from there. stunted growth from what I have learned is only partially true, while the body will stop growing in a confined are the organs however will continue to grow. eventually leading to death. but as far as I know I having been doing a pretty good job keeping my fish healthy. but may be not who knows.

 

[eatbreakfast]

I assure you a 125 is plenty big for a 3.5'' fish. crystal clear water and haven't bothered to test the water in years. but they have research supporting my claim. I know the growth rate between male and female is different, with the male typically growing a little faster. they do grow very fast until they reach 2.5'' then it slows down a lot more from there. stunted growth from what I have learned is only partially true, while the body will stop growing in a confined are the organs however will continue to grow. eventually leading to death. but as far as I know I having been doing a pretty good job keeping my fish healthy. but may be not who knows.

There are degrees to stunted growth. The type of growth you are describing is soley from confined space, which is one type of stunting where musculature and skeletal structures don't develop correctly.

Other types are related to growth suppressing hormones released by fish in their slime coat and urea. This inhibits nearly all growth in the fish.

If a fish does not grow at or close to their rate in the wild something related to husbandry is responsible.

 

[colin obrien]

There are degrees to stunted growth. The type of growth you are describing is soley from confined space, which is one type of stunting where musculature and skeletal structures don't develop correctly.

Other types are related to growth suppressing hormones released by fish in their slime coat and urea. This inhibits nearly all growth in the fish.

If a fish does not grow at or close to their rate in the wild something related to husbandry is responsible.

here read this article https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/history/all-about-the-humu-triggerfish.148

 

[eatbreakfast]

here read this article https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/history/all-about-the-humu-triggerfish.148

Hmmm. Go figure someone selling fish making it seem that a lg fish will be appropriate in undersized tank.

I have kept numerous huma triggers over the years and they all grew faster than that article states. Why is that? Are there some populations that grow substantially faster than others and I just so happen to get them from only that source? Or is it that a properly cared for fish has a faster growth rate than one that is more confined in one way or another?

If you look at humas collected in the wild there is a large degree of seasonality as it pertains to size. As the season progresses so do the sizes of specimens offered. Why is it that wild specimens are growing exponentially faster than captive counterparts? 2 main factors, first, more feeding opportunities, and 2nd, cleaner water. Oftentimes, triggers are kept in a Fish Only system with other predators. These fish produce a lot of waste which greatly affects water quality. This slows or stunts their growth rate. However, when husbandry more closely mimics wild conditions their growth accelerates.

If their captive growth rate does not closely compare to their wild growth rate then that means something has stunted their growth. Stunted growth is a sign that something is wrong.

 

[Reefaddict1979]

Why are you arguing with a guy who think a 40 gallon breeder is big enough to house any trigger let alone a Huma. Also he states his water is crystal clear and hasn’t tested in years. Oh yes the good old my water looks prefect

 

[colin obrien]

Why are you arguing with a guy who think a 40 gallon breeder is big enough to house any trigger let alone a Huma. Also he states his water is crystal clear and hasn’t tested in years. Oh yes the good old my water looks prefect

if you do your research a humu trigger should get 14 to 18 months in that size tank. I also do a 25% water change every week and feed the exact same amount everyday minus vacations. and while I was out of town for a week and my ac did die while I was gone 0ver the week and boiled my tank it was irresponsible of me to not test water. but if you do your research on genus you will find many fascinating studies on the humu triggers. in the wild they gain an inch as the average out of about 300 specimens in one study.

 

[siniang]

Why are you arguing with a guy who think a 40 gallon breeder is big enough to house any trigger let alone a Huma. Also he states his water is crystal clear and hasn’t tested in years. Oh yes the good old my water looks prefect

If you're referring to me, I can just keep reiterating that the humu will move into a bigger tank, eventually. I also consulted with my friend - who actually studies/researches humus for a living - and she says I'm fine. This is not to defend bad husbandry or even animal cruelty. I understand the limitations and longterm requirements and will accommodate. But, it is also my personal observation that with all topics pet keeping there are very many, very different, at times very emotional, opinions out there...not always based in facts (which is NOT to say that any of the statements here in the thread, especially from the experienced fish keepers, are false. I wouldn't dare).

Thank you, actually for the discussion. It was interesting to read and I learnt a lot regarding husbandry.

As in terms of the original question of this thread, both my humu and blenny seem fine at 3 months in. The humu has grown some, but it keeps really hard for me to actually judge his size with the distortion of the glass and water etc. My friend had a rectangle trigger and her's hasn't grown heeps in one year, definitely not 2". Maybe, one also shouldn't forget that even in the wild growth rates are averages and are ALWAYS subject to influences, including intrinsic (genes) and extrinsic (food, territorial rivalry, ...) limitations.

What I also keep wondering is, whether all those recommendations for larger tanks are because usually people keep more than 1 fish and they want their trigger be part of a larger reef tank with a variety of other fish and potentially inverts...well, yeah of course you need a large tank.