How much Phyto is too much?

[DmitryB]

I've started culturing Phyto (just the greens for now; trying my first Rhodomona lens now. Well, second Rhodomona lens, I friend the first attempt with too much light!) Anyway, with gallons of Phyto being made (even if it is just one strain), I've got too much Phyto! How much is too much to dose? I think I've seen @Reef By Steele say they dose up to 2x ml of their gallon volume?? I've tried just one ml of gallon volume for now, but my skimmer (October Regal 200 INT) goes absolutely bonkers for HOURS afterwards. And because I have it draining into a 1 gallon container next to the sump, it FLOODS. Now happened 3 times. Last time I left the skimmer off for 6 hours and it still flooded (I left for work.) So, is it just too much Phyto or does the skimmer just need to be dialed waaaaay down? But then it doesn't do much the other 18 hrs. (This Octo Regal skimmer is a pain in the butt!)

 

[Imrahilwjz]

Interested to see what foks have to say. I was dosing 400 mL to a 320 gallon system. I didn't notice that issue with my Bubble Magus curve 7, but that could have been because I wasn't watching closely. I need to harvest and start dosing again.

 

[rowenaad]

I culture my phyto so i have no idea what density we are talking about but i dump some random amount in my connected 20+15 gallon system. 1L usually last me 3 wks (cuz i wanna dump them all before going too old) or i can dump it all in 2 wks if i have too much in spare. my skimmer is mounted rather high mostly for air exchange so i never see it going crazy. and i never see any adverse effect with "overdosing"

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I don't know if there is such a thing as too much, but when I used to culture my pwn phyto, I never measured how much I added, I just poured. Sometimes I needed space in my fridge and I've had to dump phyto into my tank or else it would have gone down the drain, nothing ever happened. I never noticed anything happening to my skimmer.

 

[mcarroll]

I've started culturing Phyto (just the greens for now; trying my first Rhodomona lens now. Well, second Rhodomona lens, I friend the first attempt with too much light!) Anyway, with gallons of Phyto being made (even if it is just one strain), I've got too much Phyto! How much is too much to dose? I think I've seen @Reef By Steele say they dose up to 2x ml of their gallon volume?? I've tried just one ml of gallon volume for now, but my skimmer (October Regal 200 INT) goes absolutely bonkers for HOURS afterwards. And because I have it draining into a 1 gallon container next to the sump, it FLOODS. Now happened 3 times. Last time I left the skimmer off for 6 hours and it still flooded (I left for work.) So, is it just too much Phyto or does the skimmer just need to be dialed waaaaay down? But then it doesn't do much the other 18 hrs. (This Octo Regal skimmer is a pain in the butt!)

In the short term dial it down to dry skim and/or unhook the drain so the liquid fraction just goes back into the sump.

 

[afboundguy]

I am doing 900 ml spread out evenly over three doses daily for my roughly 200 gallon total setup. This is actually on the low side but I will be ramping it back up.

I use @TopShelfAquatics's dosing chart as it seems to break it down the best.

 

[DmitryB]

I am doing 900 ml spread out evenly over three doses daily for my roughly 200 gallon total setup. This is actually on the low side but I will be ramping it back up.

I use @TopShelfAquatics's dosing chart as it seems to break it down the best.

Wow I was not expecting those numbers!

 

[JonoH]

I dose 500ml in my 220 Gal most days with no adverse effects to my skimmer. But I am heavy SPS stocked with some Clams and filter feeders. (Also culture my own Tiso and Nanno).

If your skimmer is going nuts, maybe its not getting consumed? How heavily are you stocked?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I’ve used to dose 4ml/gallon, the dose was spread over a 24 hours period (dosing every hour). imo, it will depend on the biodiversity in your system.

 

[fryman]

I dose 6-8 liters a day in a 120gallon. Right now it's a mix of tetraselmis, chaetoceros gracilis, and tisochrysis lutea, although I have tried a variety of diff mixes. I use phyto for my automatic water change.

It has less of an impact that you probably expect. Doesn't move the needle, as far as I can tell, for inorganic nitrate or phosphate. Other feeding has a much bigger impact, especially pellets (when I feed lots of pellets I see inorganic phosphate spikes).

I have a few three-year old flame scallops though, probably only alive due to phyto dosing.

 

[DmitryB]

I dose 500ml in my 220 Gal most days with no adverse effects to my skimmer. But I am heavy SPS stocked with some Clams and filter feeders. (Also culture my own Tiso and Nanno).

If your skimmer is going nuts, maybe its not getting consumed? How heavily are you stocked?

I currently have a lot of frags, SPS and LPS. None of them are big. And I have 2 clams: a small Crocea and a 5" Squamosa. It's possible they're not consuming it fast enough at this time.

I assume everyone shuts off the skimmer for X amount of time after dosing Phyto? My skimmer goes nuts right after dosing and then for hours after. I should note though that when I first installed the skimmer, it would go bonkers when I added regular frozen food. One cube of brine shrimp and the skimmer immediately went crazy. It stopped doing that soon after; there's no noticeable increase in foaming when I add frozen foods now. Is the skimmer adjusting itself? Maybe it will adjust to Phyto as well, although I don't think skimmers are supposed to be smart like a Google Nest!

 

[JonoH]

I currently have a lot of frags, SPS and LPS. None of them are big. And I have 2 clams: a small Crocea and a 5" Squamosa. It's possible they're not consuming it fast enough at this time.

I assume everyone shuts off the skimmer for X amount of time after dosing Phyto? My skimmer goes nuts right after dosing and then for hours after. I should note though that when I first installed the skimmer, it would go bonkers when I added regular frozen food. One cube of brine shrimp and the skimmer immediately went crazy. It stopped doing that soon after; there's no noticeable increase in foaming when I add frozen foods now. Is the skimmer adjusting itself? Maybe it will adjust to Phyto as well, although I don't think skimmers are supposed to be smart like a Google Nest!

I think you might be onto it, your frags have a lot less consumption than what a full colony would have, I would simply lower your dose.

 

[afboundguy]

Wow I was not expecting those numbers!

I usually dose close to the NPS column even though I don't have a ton of NPS but I dose that much and my pod population explodes and so does all the small sponges.

 

[DmitryB]

Wow I was not expecting those numbers!

I usually dose close to the NPS column even though I don't have a ton of NPS but I dose that much and my pod population explodes and so does all the small sponges.

I do need to keep the pod population up because I have 2 tiny Mandarins (aquacultured) and as of two days ago, two grown Anthias!

 

[Reef By Steele Verified Sponsor]

Wow I was not expecting those numbers!

I have to say that your skimmer is either overactive or not at quite right. I dosed 1000ml per day in a 180 gallon full volume 160 gallon RedSea before it blew its front seam. And never had that issue. I did it during feed mode which would shut down return and skinner for 45 minutes.

 

[DmitryB]

Wow I was not expecting those numbers!

I have to say that your skimmer is either overactive or not at quite right. I dosed 1000ml per day in a 180 gallon full volume 160 gallon RedSea before it blew its front seam. And never had that issue. I did it during feed mode which would shut down return and skinner for 45 minutes.

The skimmer is definitely a work in progress. It's been a bit of a PIA.

 

[fryman]

I am doing 900 ml spread out evenly over three doses daily for my roughly 200 gallon total setup. This is actually on the low side but I will be ramping it back up.

I use @TopShelfAquatics's dosing chart as it seems to break it down the best.

I like TSA and I'm not sure I want to say it but this chart, and frankly most recommended phyto dosing amounts I've seen do not hold up to scrutiny. I believe the recommendations are based entirely on economics. In order to make a profit, sellers need to charge $20-$30 per liter for live phyto. If they say this will last a month, people will buy it. No-one would spend $100+ per day on live phyto, so sellers pretend that all you need is 100ml per day for a 100gallon display.

Live phyto cultures contain at MOST, 1 or 2g of actual phytoplankton per liter, so 100ml gives 200mg of phyto at best. 200mg of phytoplankton would produce at best 20mg of copepods, under ideal conditions in say a species-specific breeding reactor designed to ensure all the phyto went to the copepods.

Take an average fish, maybe a clownfish that weighs ~30g, and consumes ~1% of their body weight in a day (300mg). So, 20mg of copepods would be one mouthful for an average-size fish, meeting less than 10% of their nutritional requirements and eaten in an instant. It is not nearly sufficient to sustain the average single fish for a single day.

So can someone please explain to me how exaxtly is 100ml of phyto diluted in 100gallons supposed to make any significant impact in terms of meeting nutritional needs of typical livestock in a 100gallon reef tank display?

 

[Reef By Steele Verified Sponsor]

I like TSA and I'm not sure I want to say it but this chart, and frankly most recommended phyto dosing amounts I've seen do not hold up to scrutiny. I believe the recommendations are based entirely on economics. In order to make a profit, sellers need to charge $20-$30 per liter for live phyto. If they say this will last a month, people will buy it. No-one would spend $100+ per day on live phyto, so sellers pretend that all you need is 100ml per day for a 100gallon display.

Live phyto cultures contain at MOST, 1 or 2g of actual phytoplankton per liter, so 100ml gives 200mg of phyto at best. 200mg of phytoplankton would produce at best 20mg of copepods, under ideal conditions in say a species-specific breeding reactor designed to ensure all the phyto went to the copepods.

Take an average fish, maybe a clownfish that weighs ~30g, and consumes ~1% of their body weight in a day (300mg). So, 20mg of copepods would be one mouthful for an average-size fish, meeting less than 10% of their nutritional requirements and eaten in an instant. It is not nearly sufficient to sustain the average single fish for a single day.

So can someone please explain to me how exaxtly is 100ml of phyto diluted in 100gallons supposed to make any significant impact in terms of meeting nutritional needs of typical livestock in a 100gallon reef tank display?

Yes, first and foremost it has to be live viable phytoplankton. This allows it to reproduce in your system. So one cell becomes hundreds. This is why a high quality live phytoplankton reduces nitrates and phosphates when dosed regularly. If you are feeding a dead non viable product then yes you are only getting whatever amount of food is consumed and the rest is creating nitrates and phosphates as it deteriorates just like left over fish food.

A 1/2 gallon of Phyto will grow thousands of copepods in a gallon vessel in 5-7 days.

I started culturing my own due to having 5 large systems, so paying retail was expensive. 100 ml per day dosed in feed mode will make a noticeable difference in a 100 gallon tank. And in a newly established tank, a blend with diatoms can compete against the uglies for the silicates from the sand.

IMO you cannot overdose live phyto, but you do need to monitor nutrients. I zeroed a predator tank that consistently ran over 100 nitrates. I had added a refugium, algae scrubber, ran homemade no-pox and lanthanum chloride, but found that if I forgot to fill the dosing containers the tank would go haywire. I haven’t had that issue since switching to controlling the nutrients with live phyto.

I did however run 500-1000 ml per day in a 180 gallon system, but it had a shark, puffer, coupe large wrasses and a grouper.

 

[Sam7]

I've started culturing Phyto (just the greens for now; trying my first Rhodomona lens now. Well, second Rhodomona lens, I friend the first attempt with too much light!) Anyway, with gallons of Phyto being made (even if it is just one strain), I've got too much Phyto! How much is too much to dose? I think I've seen @Reef By Steele say they dose up to 2x ml of their gallon volume?? I've tried just one ml of gallon volume for now, but my skimmer (October Regal 200 INT) goes absolutely bonkers for HOURS afterwards. And because I have it draining into a 1 gallon container next to the sump, it FLOODS. Now happened 3 times. Last time I left the skimmer off for 6 hours and it still flooded (I left for work.) So, is it just too much Phyto or does the skimmer just need to be dialed waaaaay down? But then it doesn't do much the other 18 hrs. (This Octo Regal skimmer is a pain in the butt!)

you should be turning your skimmer off for awhile after dosing....other wise its pretty much useless

 

[DmitryB]

I've started culturing Phyto (just the greens for now; trying my first Rhodomona lens now. Well, second Rhodomona lens, I friend the first attempt with too much light!) Anyway, with gallons of Phyto being made (even if it is just one strain), I've got too much Phyto! How much is too much to dose? I think I've seen @Reef By Steele say they dose up to 2x ml of their gallon volume?? I've tried just one ml of gallon volume for now, but my skimmer (October Regal 200 INT) goes absolutely bonkers for HOURS afterwards. And because I have it draining into a 1 gallon container next to the sump, it FLOODS. Now happened 3 times. Last time I left the skimmer off for 6 hours and it still flooded (I left for work.) So, is it just too much Phyto or does the skimmer just need to be dialed waaaaay down? But then it doesn't do much the other 18 hrs. (This Octo Regal skimmer is a pain in the butt!)

you should be turning your skimmer off for awhile after dosing....other wise its pretty much useless

What's your recommendation for how long to turn it off? My skimmer is very over reactive. Is anybody else running an Octo Regal? I can turn down the skimmer in general, but then not sure how much it'd be skimming the rest of the time.