How Quiet Can you Get a Sump Realistically?

ahud · Sep 29, 2021

parkwaytrash said:
I converted my dual durso to a Herbie. The durso was way to loud. as soon as I did the conversion i was amazed at how quiet it became. I run a dc return pump that I can never tell if it's running it's so quiet. I just installed a DC motor skimmer and it's super quiet.

I am very sensitive to noise and with this new to me tank and sump I am extremely pleased

Good to hear. That's the kicker, one mans loud is anothers silent haha.

workhz · Sep 29, 2021

With a normal Durso, no. It’s a waterfall of water. Speaking of which, if you have a traditional corner overflow with one drain and one return what’s the process to go to herbie? Convert return to drain or emergency drain and reroute the return?

nereefpat · Sep 29, 2021

workhz said:
if you have a traditional corner overflow with one drain and one return what’s the process to go to herbie? Convert return to drain or emergency drain and reroute the return?

You got it. Convert the return (since it's usually smaller) to a siphon with a gate valve, convert the drain to the trickle/emergency, and run a return over the back of the tank.

parkwaytrash · Sep 29, 2021

With my dual return and dual overflows, I have 1 overflow as an emergency and 1 as the main drain with a gate valve. I did not change the size of the plumbing when I did the conversion

workhz · Sep 29, 2021

nereefpat said:
You got it. Convert the return (since it's usually smaller) to a siphon with a gate valve, convert the drain to the trickle/emergency, and run a return over the back of the tank.

That makes sense, thanks. I've now looked at a few videos and read some articles and may convert my tank even though it's behind a wall in the basement. One question though, why do some people want water trickling down the emergency drain? Is it because there's some useful reason to do that that I can't think of or that the herbie is impossible to tune and having some trickle means you have max flow in the siphon/gate?

Makes me wonder whether the reduced noise (if you aren't experiencing flushing and all the other stuff that can happen on a durso that isn't set up properly) is just reduced waterfall noise because the emergency drain is set up so high or whether it really is quieter when the water hits the sump. Reducing bubbles could be an additional advantage. I'm sure this has all been discussed before ...

nereefpat · Sep 29, 2021

workhz said:
One question though, why do some people want water trickling down the emergency drain? Is it because there's some useful reason to do that that I can't think of or that the herbie is impossible to tune and having some trickle means you have max flow in the siphon/gate?

There is some use to having the emergency 'trickle,' because it skims the surface of the overflow. The bigger reason is that it's just easier to tune that way, instead of trying to perfectly set the height of water in the overflow. The trickle won't make any noise, as long as it is just a trickle. Too much flow down the trickle will cause it to gurgle.

workhz said:
Makes me wonder whether the reduced noise (if you aren't experiencing flushing and all the other stuff that can happen on a durso that isn't set up properly) is just reduced waterfall noise because the emergency drain is set up so high or whether it really is quieter when the water hits the sump. Reducing bubbles could be an additional advantage. I'm sure this has all been discussed before ...

Those are good thoughts too. Too much of a drop from the overflow weir to the emergency can cause some waterfall noise in the overflow box. The water entering the sump will be silent on a properly tuned Herbie or Bean, as there will be no bubbles coming from the siphon and only a few coming from the trickle. A durso will have some noise in the sump from the air, unless the flow is really really slow.

Dursos are safe and work just fine. They just can't handle much flow without being a little noisy.

mike89t · Sep 29, 2021

I used to run a pair of Durso's in my old tank about 10 years ago. They were good at controlling most of the noise but I could still hear them from another room. Plus tuning the Durso's was a pain.

With my new tank that has a Bean Animal style overflow, I can't hear the overflow at all after I finished tuning it which was super easy. Really the only thing I can hear from my tank now is a quiet hum from my return pump and protein skimmer.

rhostam · Sep 29, 2021

What dB is considered loud?

Ambient dB in my home is about 30 (no activity) to 39dB (someone in the room, etc).

dB measured when I’m talking about a foot from my mouth is 75dB.

dB when the TV is on at volume 10 which is normal volume (no Atmos) is 40s.

dB in my cabinet is about 65dB.

dB measured just outside the cabinet with the doors closed is about 42dB. Right now I have the skimmer turned up higher than normal. But it’s usually unnoticed.

I have the included Waterbox sump and plumbing. Tuning flow via the gate valve is key for eliminating overflow noise.

Theulli · Sep 29, 2021

ahud said:
Hello,

I do not have much experience with sumps. I have had two, both were loud enough that I blame them partly for ditching the tank. Both ran Durso drains.

So just how quiet can you get a sump if you skip a skimmer? Will they ever be as quiet as a canister filter? I'm really sensitive to noise and tricking water sounds irritate me.

Mine is totally silent.only sound is a bit of hum from the pump

elcapitan1993 · Sep 29, 2021

My sump is dead silent, I have one drain and one emergency drain, my skimmer is dead silent”simplicity 120DC” my return pump is dead silent “Neptune cor-15” all I hear is my heater controller clicking on and off during the winter

Dburr1014 · Sep 30, 2021

If you have two holes in your overflow make your durso into Herbie. You can get it so quiet all you hear are the pumps in your tank. You just have to raise the water high enough so you don't hear any splashing over the overflow and the pipe needs to be in water in the sump. The return will have to go over the top of the tank.

Fish man · Sep 30, 2021

I've done several things to make my system almost silent. Starting with the overflow. I went to a herbie which is silent if you get it dialed in right. That made a huge difference. I also made a cover for my overflow, that quieted the falling water noise into it. In the sump I terminated all pipes draining into the sump below water level. That eliminated any falling water noise into the sump. In the sump I used dc variable speed pumps for my skimmer and return pump. Good quality pumps like these are almost silent. I also have a cabinet which I made. With doors on the front and a totally enclosed back it muffles any noise from the skimmer and pumps. I had to put a small exhaust fan in the back of the cabinet to remove humidity so I used a small computer fan that is silent. My tank is in my office and I work from home so I couldn't have Niagara falls going in my office all day. About the only noise I get is a small hum from my return pump that I have to stop and listen for to know it's there.

workhz · Sep 30, 2021

Does eliminating all these water noises hurt oxygen exchange? The waterfalls and the air mixing in the durso ...

ahud · Sep 30, 2021

Fish man said:
I've done several things to make my system almost silent. Starting with the overflow. I went to a herbie which is silent if you get it dialed in right. That made a huge difference. I also made a cover for my overflow, that quieted the falling water noise into it. In the sump I terminated all pipes draining into the sump below water level. That eliminated any falling water noise into the sump. In the sump I used dc variable speed pumps for my skimmer and return pump. Good quality pumps like these are almost silent. I also have a cabinet which I made. With doors on the front and a totally enclosed back it muffles any noise from the skimmer and pumps. I had to put a small exhaust fan in the back of the cabinet to remove humidity so I used a small computer fan that is silent. My tank is in my office and I work from home so I couldn't have Niagara falls going in my office all day. About the only noise I get is a small hum from my return pump that I have to stop and listen for to know it's there.

Thanks for posting

Pistondog · Sep 30, 2021

workhz said:
Does eliminating all these water noises hurt oxygen exchange? The waterfalls and the air mixing in the durso ...

This is a great question.
How can we measure oxygen exchange?
Maybe we just care about dissolved oxygen levels in the tank.
If this is true, we might use ph as an analog to lack of co2, which photosynthesis converts to o2, and good gas exchange would move high co2 to low co2.
After quieting the tank, less splashing noise, I see no difference in ph swings.

Another data point, running the skimmer only at night, increases my ph swing max by 0.05, which happens as the lights are dimming. This I attribute to the gas exchange from the skimmer not normalizing the reduced co2 from photosynthesis to air ambient levels.
I admit there are some questions here, but trying to convince myself the fish are happy.

Timfish · Sep 30, 2021

Yes, sumps can be very quiet. It may take jumping through hoops though depending on how the overflow an plumping are set up.

Noise can be generated by water sucking air into the plubing and then you get noise as the air is trying to escape, Both the durso and herbie type overflows are designed to minimize this if proberly mad e and adjsuted.

Noise can also be made by water falling from the drain plumbing into a sump/refugium or from falling over weirs in a sump/refugium.

Additionally, reducing water flow through the sump/refugium is one possible solution if high flow rates are being used. Sump/refugiums do not need the high flow rates sometimes suggested and it's actually more effecient to use a low flow rate through sump/refugium and use powerheads/wavemakers in the display for the desired flow.

You might try isolating where the noise is coming from to determine what might need to be done.