How soon after dosing lanthanum would tangs die?

[Miami Reef]

For the people who had tangs die from lanthanum chloride, how soon did you notice the negative effects of it? If the tang died, how soon after the dose did it?

Does it kill rapidly or are the effects observed after some time? If I were to dose lanthanum, how long thereafter would I know I’m in the clear?

Has lanthanum dosing ever killed some tangs, but not others, within a community?

 

[Lavey29]

Lanthium can cause 02 deprivation if not dosed properly so it can affect the whole tank. Bigger fish need higher levels of 02 so they may show symptoms first. I've used it for several years with no issues. I dose half amounts into my sump. Some dose into the skimmer.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Lanthium can cause 02 deprivation if not dosed properly so it can affect the whole tank. Bigger fish need higher levels of 02 so they may show symptoms first. I've used it for several years with no issues. I dose half amounts into my sump. Some dose into the skimmer.

Tangs are more susceptible as apparently they sequester more phosphate in their gills than other species of fish, so when Lanthanum causes phosphate precipitation in the gills Tangs are most affected.

 

[Miami Reef]

Tangs are more susceptible as apparently they sequester more phosphate in their gills than other species of fish, so when Lanthanum causes phosphate precipitation in the gills Tangs are most affected.

I read that post of yours earlier. It was very interesting, and I appreciate it. It does make sense and might actually be a possibility.

I thought about it when making this thread. If that’s true, how fast would the fish start reacting if lanthanum precipitated on their gills? Hypothetically, of course.

 

[fish_collector]

You must drip it into a very fine filter sock inside of another filter sock to capture the crystals that form. Fish will die within hours if not done this way.

As I understand it, LC binds with phosphate and forms crystals that get caught in the fish's gills and causes them to suffocate.

I don't want to say who these fish belonged to out of respect because it was an accident. If you have never used LC, it is no joke.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If overdosed will take a fish down in as soon as 8 hours and air stone recommended as it has similar effects as Prazi with appetite and oxygen reduction

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Lanthium can cause 02 deprivation if not dosed properly so it can affect the whole tank. Bigger fish need higher levels of 02 so they may show symptoms first. I've used it for several years with no issues. I dose half amounts into my sump. Some dose into the skimmer.

How do you know that is the mechanism?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You must drip it into a very fine filter sock inside of another filter sock to capture the crystals that form. Fish will die within hours if not done this way.

As I understand it, LC binds with phosphate and forms crystals that get caught in the fish's gills and causes them to suffocate.

I don't want to say who these fish belonged to out of respect because it was an accident. If you have never used LC, it is no joke.

They may be true, but there’s no evidence that is the mechanism.

 

[Lavey29]

How do you know that is the mechanism?

Well technically it affects the fish gills preventing them from getting 02 and resulting in suffocating if not dosed properly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well technically it affects the fish gills preventing them from getting 02 and resulting in suffocating if not dosed properly.

How do you know that is what’s happening? The whole gill hypothesis may be correct, or not, and may be from particulates or dissolved lanthanum, but I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest it is true.

Have you?

 

[Miami Reef]

I dosed lanthanum last night. My yellow tang, male blonde naso, and orange shoulder tang were fine. I also never had an issue with lanthanum in the past with tangs. The tank got slightly cloudy last night after dosing.

If it kills fish for some people, there must be something negative about it. Is it possible for there to be a cumulative effect?

Randy, if you had tangs that did fine after the first lanthanum dose, would you personally use it again?

 

[Lavey29]

How do you know that is what’s happening? The whole gill hypothesis may be correct, or not, and may be from particulates or dissolved lanthanum, but I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest it is true.

Have you?

Fish told me at first I thought he was choking but luckily I keep a Life Vac handy then I realized he wasn't breathing and began CPR and was lucky to bring him back and the first thing he said was "that dang lanthium almost got me".

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Fish told me at first I thought he was choking but luckily I keep a Life Vac handy then I realized he wasn't breathing and began CPR and was lucky to bring him back and the first thing he said was "that dang lanthium almost got me".

lol. Ok

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dosed lanthanum last night. My yellow tang, male blonde naso, and orange shoulder tang were fine. I also never had an issue with lanthanum in the past with tangs. The tank got slightly cloudy last night after dosing.

If it kills fish for some people, there must be something negative about it. Is it possible for there to be a cumulative effect?

Randy, if you had tangs that did fine after the first lanthanum dose, would you personally use it again?

Probably, yes.

If I were to use it, I think I would use it the way Richard Ross does, adding small amounts at a time into a skimmer.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

I have experienced Lanthanum killing tangs only. It was overnight timing in this case. It was a client's tank, so I didn't see it until the next day. Fish were breathing hard the next day, but Tangs were the only casualties.

 

[rishma]

I have no experience with LC. Is it normal for the tank to get cloudy?

 

[Miami Reef]

I have no experience with LC. Is it normal for the tank to get cloudy?

No. Well, yes, if you dosed a bit too much.

It was only slightly hazy. Very slight. I just wanted to put it out there.

 

[rishma]

I admire the calm way you asked your question. I’d have been panicking.

 

[Miami Reef]

I admire the calm way you asked your question. I’d have been panicking.

Oh, I dosed the lanthanum after asking the question.

 

[slingfox]

one time I dosed LC in the Kate afternoon and found my first yellow tang laying at the bottom of the tang the next morning. He died shortly after. I got a replacement yellow tang and have dosed LC a few times without issue. I now dose LC very slowly into an into a small micron sock over the course of 24 hours. Thankfully I have not had to dose LC for almost a year. I assume this is because my tank got mature and stabilized.