How stressful is not acclimating new fish? After all, isn’t a fresh water dip the exact opposite, but yet fish appear to survive it?

[RealWorld]

It is my understanding that upon purchasing a new fish from LFS, it is customary to slowly acclimate the new fish to the water in the DT or QT, by slowly adding DT/QT water to the water from LFS. We do this to slowly change the chemistry and temp of the LFS water that the fish came with, to those of our DT/QT values..... all in an attempt to prevent stressing the new fish.

While the above practice makes perfect sense in theory, I cannot understand why the stresses associated with not properly acclimating the fish are considered to be so significant, when we often subject diseased (and arguably weakened) fish to fresh water dips, which are the ultimate change in chemistry conditions experienced by a fish going from saltwater to freshwater, without the fish dying from such practice?

So, my question is as follows: Assuming we match the temperature of water from LFS to the temperature of water in DT/QT, why is it necessary to also slowly match the salinity of LFS water to that of DT/QT water, when the DRASTIC change of water chemistry experienced by fresh water dips does not appear to be significantly stressful to the fish to discourage its practice?

 

[Mrj7]

I have often wondered this myself, as I have been researching fresh water dips recently. I am glad you asked this question. I am no expert but I assume it’s just a best practice kind of thing. I look forward to some of the experts sharing their opinions.

 

[TriggerFinger]

I’ve wondered this before. I never see anyone mention acclimating a fish back to saltwater after a freshwater dip. My wandering thoughts led me to believe that a freshwater dip is still shocking to their system but better for them as it gets rid of a good portion of parasites. I believe properly acclimating new fish to match your tank is giving it the “best shot” at living. Sure, many can overcome the drastic change but why give them unnecessary stress when you don’t have to?

 

[saltcats]

A complete guess on my part but I always assumed with a freshwater dip, it's such a short duration that the fish is still adjusted to full salt so to speak - it doesn't need to be acclimated back to full salt because it's still in "full salt mode" internally. Whereas if you were adding a fish to your tank, it'll be there long term, so it needs to acclimate gently to the new parameters. The dip itself is okay because going from higher to lower salinity is easier on the fish.

Would love to know if I'm completely off base here, this is just how it makes sense to me!

 

[User1]

I have often wondered this myself, as I have been researching fresh water dips recently. I am glad you asked this question. I am no expert but I assume it’s just a best practice kind of thing. I look forward to some of the experts sharing their opinions.

If you are researching fresh water dips or baths I highly recommend heading over to wet web media and read Mr. Fenner's write up. Methylene blue is the key and it is very important to follow his recommendations and process.

Regarding the main question the OP had. It isn't just about temp and equalization. It is also matching water chemistry such as pH. The same thing needs to be done with dips or other medication.

 

[User1]

A complete guess on my part but I always assumed with a freshwater dip, it's such a short duration that the fish is still adjusted to full salt so to speak - it doesn't need to be acclimated back to full salt because it's still in "full salt mode" internally. Whereas if you were adding a fish to your tank, it'll be there long term, so it needs to acclimate gently to the new parameters. The dip itself is okay because going from higher to lower salinity is easier on the fish.

Would love to know if I'm completely off base here, this is just how it makes sense to me!

A dip is 15 minutes or so. A bath is 30 minutes. They are not the same and it will vary based on the fish, hobbyist, and how each are going through the process.

 

[Mrj7]

It is my understand that upon purchasing a new fish from LFS, it is customary to slowly acclimate the new fish to the water in the DT or QT, by slowly adding DT/QT water to the water from LFS. We do this to slowly change the salinity and temp of the LFS water that the fish came with, to those of our DT/QT values..... all in an attempt to prevent stressing the new fish.

While the above practice makes perfect sense in theory, I cannot understand why the stresses associated with not properly acclimating the fish are considered to be so significant, when we often subject diseased (and arguably weakened) fish to fresh water dips, which are the ultimate change in salinity experienced by a fish, without the fish dying from such practice?

So, my question is as follows: Assuming we match the temperature of water from LFS to the temperature of water in DT/QT, why is it necessary to also slowly match the salinity of LFS water to that of DT/QT water, when the DRASTIC change of salinity experienced by fresh water dips does not appear to be significantly stressful to discourage its practice?

Acclimating PH is also a really big thing that I didn't see you mention, not just salinity. Most people that I have seen do fresh water dips use a PH buffer in the fresh water to match the PH of their salt water.

 

[ReefBeta]

freshwater dip is less than 5 mins, usually 3 or less. The fish is extremely stressed in the process. If the fish are put in that much stress for a prolong time, it could kill it. After the dip the fish are put back to the water same as before. So as an analogy, freshwater dip is more like we hold the breath for couple minutes in water, while acclimating salinity is like going to high altitude place with lower oxygen level like Himalaya, you either fly up and rest for a day to adjust, or take a train up and graduated acclimated to it.

 

[Tamberav]

It is my understanding that upon purchasing a new fish from LFS, it is customary to slowly acclimate the new fish to the water in the DT or QT, by slowly adding DT/QT water to the water from LFS. We do this to slowly change the chemistry and temp of the LFS water that the fish came with, to those of our DT/QT values..... all in an attempt to prevent stressing the new fish.

While the above practice makes perfect sense in theory, I cannot understand why the stresses associated with not properly acclimating the fish are considered to be so significant, when we often subject diseased (and arguably weakened) fish to fresh water dips, which are the ultimate change in chemistry conditions experienced by a fish going from saltwater to freshwater, without the fish dying from such practice?

So, my question is as follows: Assuming we match the temperature of water from LFS to the temperature of water in DT/QT, why is it necessary to also slowly match the salinity of LFS water to that of DT/QT water, when the DRASTIC change of water chemistry experienced by fresh water dips does not appear to be significantly stressful to the fish to discourage its practice?

I would disagree on it being customary. A lot of people do not drip.

I never drip any of my fish.

I add them directly to the tank after floating.... seen many others who do the same.

I have butterflies, wrasse, tang, clowns... no issue with them. Never seen a fish die from it in the 10+ years I have been doing it.

If a fish is in hypo or such then I set up a QT tank with spare salt/RODI I have on hand and immediately add them to that.

Dripping is stressful IMO.

 

[Paul B]

Are we talking about dripping or dipping?

 

[windemerejack]

I much prefer dripping melted on my toast
Regarding dipping, acclimatising, dripping, whatever you want to call it, i have never done this to any of my fish or inverts, i float bag for 15 minutes and then release, never had any issues, but it is like anything in this hobby, some do and some dont, it doesnt mean either way is right or wrong, you do what makes you happy and thats all that counts really.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I would disagree on it being customary. A lot of people do not drip.

I never drip any of my fish.

I add them directly to the tank after floating.... seen many others who do the same.

I have butterflies, wrasse, tang, clowns... no issue with them. Never seen a fish die from it in the 10+ years I have been doing it.

If a fish is in hypo or such then I set up a QT tank with spare salt/RODI I have on hand and immediately add them to that.

Dripping is stressful IMO.

I agree, but with one exception. Many dealers hold their fish at low SG, say 1.020 adding that fish to a reef that is at 1.026 will cause acute dehydration and possible death. Going in the other direction is perfectly fine. I always ensure the destination SG isn’t higher than the origin and then just move them over. Too many shipped fish die from acute ammonia toxicity during drip acclimation, where the ph rises faster than the ammonia is being diluted.
Jay

 

[Vette67]

I do something in between. I float the bag for about 15 minutes or so to temp acclimate, then add about a cup or so of tank water to the bag. A few minutes later, I add another cup of tank water to the bag. Then I throw out all of the bag water and usually grab the fish with my hand to add to the tank (even tangs), without transferring more than a few drops of bag water. In 20+ years, I have never lost a fish from acclimating. But I have also never bought fish online, so I do this when I purchase from an LFS. I may acclimate shipped fish quicker to avoid the ammonia spike that Jay talked about.

 

[mijan]

I do something in between. I float the bag for about 15 minutes or so to temp acclimate, then add about a cup or so of tank water to the bag. A few minutes later, I add another cup of tank water to the bag. Then I throw out all of the bag water and usually grab the fish with my hand to add to the tank (even tangs), without transferring more than a few drops of bag water. In 20+ years, I have never lost a fish from acclimating. But I have also never bought fish online, so I do this when I purchase from an LFS. I may acclimate shipped fish quicker to avoid the ammonia spike that Jay talked about.

I do the exact same thing. Float the bag then add 2 cups of DT water spaced out for 5 minutes in between. Only difference is I pour the bag water out into a net and not my hand.

 

[Tired]

I do float-and-add-water acclimation with anything I buy from a LFS, and float-to-temperature with online purchases. Been doing that for a decade, and it seems to work fine.

 

[Tamberav]

I agree, but with one exception. Many dealers hold their fish at low SG, say 1.020 adding that fish to a reef that is at 1.026 will cause acute dehydration and possible death. Going in the other direction is perfectly fine. I always ensure the destination SG isn’t higher than the origin and then just move them over. Too many shipped fish die from acute ammonia toxicity during drip acclimation, where the ph rises faster than the ammonia is being diluted.
Jay

Yes that is why I set up a QT with water and RO. Just add some RO to the saltwater that is already made to lower it and in they go.

I never drip for reasons of ammonia and stress. I match on the spot. I could then acclimate from the new tank/bucket but never in that bag water of stress.

My rule is within 0.03 then float and add. Within 0.05 then get in a bucket of fresh matching water with a hiding spot and add a cup every 15 min. And if larger difference such as 1.017 or such... then into an actual QT tank.

 

[Qasimja]

i dont drip acclimate fish only sensitive inverts and maybe clams i just temp acclimate and drop them in

 

[RealWorld]

I agree, but with one exception. Many dealers hold their fish at low SG, say 1.020 adding that fish to a reef that is at 1.026 will cause acute dehydration and possible death. Going in the other direction is perfectly fine. I always ensure the destination SG isn’t higher than the origin and then just move them over. Too many shipped fish die from acute ammonia toxicity during drip acclimation, where the ph rises faster than the ammonia is being diluted.
Jay

Jay, could you please explain why acclimation in the other direction is not necessary? i.e., from fresh water to DT/QT. It seems to me that fish going from fresh water to 1.026 salinity is a much more drastic change than from the 1.020 bag water of LFS to 1.026 water of DT. Is it bcs the 3-5 min that the fish spend in a fresh water dip doesn’t really change their internal salinity setting? And if that’s the case, how does taking in fresh water for 5 min not dilute down and reset the fish’s Salinity setting to require slow re-acclimation back to higher salinity of DT when coming out of fresh water?
Thank you all so much for your input. This is a fascinating discussion. Happy New Year.

 

[kenchilada]

Jay, could you please explain why acclimation in the other direction is not necessary? i.e., from fresh water to DT/QT. It seems to me that fish going from fresh water to 1.026 salinity is a much more drastic change than from the 1.020 bag water of LFS to 1.026 water of DT. Is it bcs the 3-5 min that the fish spend in a fresh water dip doesn’t really change their internal salinity setting? And if that’s the case, how does taking in fresh water for 5 min not dilute down and reset the fish’s Salinity setting to require slow re-acclimation back to higher salinity of DT when coming out of fresh water?
Thank you all so much for your input. This is a fascinating discussion. Happy New Year.

My guess is it has to do with osmosis. There must be some concentration of water in the fish’s body. If you put the fish in a higher salinity, osmotic pressure would cause water to move out of the fish (at the cell or organ level?). Perhaps this results in organ failure? I’m curious to know myself. Going from FW dip to salt is ok because the fish remains hydrated.

What an interesting thread. I usually acclimate with some Prime and a couple cups for big salinity/temp changes. I’ve never worried about pH. I haven’t drip-acclimated since the 90’s.

 

[1stNoel]

I float the bag in the tank for 15 minutes to temp acclimate, drip acclimate for 1 hour, and then quarantine for 30 days in a separate tank that is part of the overall system. This last part is for observation and to bulk them up a little before adding into the display.

I tried doing a freshwater dip once, but it stressed out the fish and, in turn, stressed me out (thinking I did something to harm it). I didn't feel it was beneficial, so I haven't done it again since.