How to create flow for a mini refugium

RobertN · Nov 21, 2016

Hi All--
I have a 100g cube, and in the stand below there's not a lot of space (yet one more reason I want a rectangular/long tank in the future). In the stand cabinet, there is a 15g sump and a chiller. In the sump, there is no more room for me to add anything into it. But there is a space next to the sump, behind the chiller. It's basically a 10" cube of space (although I could put something taller than 10" in that space if such a thing existed--the cabinet has 3 feet of vertical space). I want to create a mini refugium with some macro algae in it, to help absorb nitrates and to be a repository for copepods.

One question is, how do I get flow in and out of it? Do I just have to put 2 pumps in it--one for bringing water from the sump into the cube and another to bring water back to the sump? Or could I avoid the need for a second pump by using the water going out of the chiller and simply direct it (the tubing) into the mini refugium instead of being in the sump as it is now?

The other question is, do you have any recommendations as to where I get an aquarium cube or other type of viable container to use as that refugium without having to spend an arm and a leg for a custom-made one?
Thanks much, in advance!
Robert

saltyfilmfolks · Nov 22, 2016

RobertN said:
Hi All--
I have a 100g cube, and in the stand below there's not a lot of space (yet one more reason I want a rectangular/long tank in the future). In the stand cabinet, there is a 15g sump and a chiller. In the sump, there is no more room for me to add anything into it. But there is a space next to the sump, behind the chiller. It's basically a 10" cube of space (although I could put something taller than 10" in that space if such a thing existed--the cabinet has 3 feet of vertical space). I want to create a mini refugium with some macro algae in it, to help absorb nitrates and to be a repository for copepods.

One question is, how do I get flow in and out of it? Do I just have to put 2 pumps in it--one for bringing water from the sump into the cube and another to bring water back to the sump? Or could I avoid the need for a second pump by using the water going out of the chiller and simply direct it (the tubing) into the mini refugium instead of being in the sump as it is now?

The other question is, do you have any recommendations as to where I get an aquarium cube or other type of viable container to use as that refugium without having to spend an arm and a leg for a custom-made one?
Thanks much, in advance!
Robert

lets see a pic. we can go from there.
(and Ilike pics of tanks and sumps)

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

Overview in cabinet

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

Closer view

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

10" x 10" Space behind chiller

sinekal · Nov 22, 2016

Avoid the plan where one pump moves water in and another moves water out. You may be able to get them synced to start but they will fall out of sync quickly and you will either have a flood or an empty refugium. Use one pump, which can certainly be your chillers output, to feed into the refugium, them use gravity to get it back into the sump.

By the way a chaeto reactor may be exactly what you are looking for.

saltyfilmfolks · Nov 22, 2016

Yup maybe a chato reactor.
Man that's crowded.
Forgive the observation but the chiller in that small a space isn't going to breathe and is really just going to be a heater. Plus it'll wear it out fast.
Is that another reactor in the front?
Ya might want to re consider the layout.
Man If I'd known more back when I got my tank I would have looked so much harder at the stand. Two years in and I've got it almost where I like mine

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

Thanks much for the responses! The thing is, the stand is a cube too, just like the tank. There's really no way to make more space inside of it by moving things around. As I mentioned at the start of my post, I would certainly not get a large cube tank (or stand) again in the future. But there is possibly another way for me to mediate this.

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

I almost forgot to answer one question above....yep, there's a recirculating biopellets reactor in the front.

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

Here's the area just in front of the right side of the stand's door

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

Here's a view slightly farther back

epstein · Nov 22, 2016

That chiller is on borrowed time... Consider placing a wicker basket next to the stand and cover it that way but put a silent low speed comp fan mounted to it so you have air flow. Thats a big investment to lose. You can also do a refugium remotely the same way . I did with my old tank and top off water.

Brian

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

So what if I were to get another cabinet with a similar stain and put it against this wall.....then either drill holes on the side of it just opposite to the stand's door or remove all or most of that side of the cabinet. And drill holes in the stand on the right wall of it--the wall that is just next to this room's wall in the photo. And then couldn't I move the chiller into that cabinet and just get longer tubing to go to and from the chiller to and from the sump/"Y" tubing that is part of the return flow to the tank? And this would open up space in the stand next to the sump so that I could put a real refugium in the stand--yes? Is this feasible?

Other than the new/added cabinet, would I need anything besides longer tubing?

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

And if I took the entire side off of the new cabinet rather than just drilling a hole or two, that would also allow much more air flow for the chiller, yes?

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

The wicker basket is a smart and inexpensive way to do that (and my wife would prefer the lower cost)! But the schemer in me is thinking, if I get a sturdy stand, perhaps a used one if I can find one with a similar stain, then I can put the chiller below, and in the not-too-distant future, put a refugium-like tank on top of it. For the quite a while now, I've had this wish to put a tank against that wall (originally I was just thinking of some custom sized one that is tall and long, but narrow in depth) that would be linked to the sump as I wrote above. And in it would be some things my wife and I would both like to view--we both like the movement of long tentacles or branches--that I've felt I couldn't put into the DT.

So I thought I could put in a number of attractive species of macro algae to look nice, absorb nitrates, and be a home for copepods to reproduce (I've tried that in the DT, but I have a yellow tang that eats it up in no time). I could also put in 2 or 3 long-tentacled anemones (something I've been afraid to add to the DT for fear of them moving and stinging my corals). Then I could put in some neat inverts that I wouldn't dare put in my DT with the melanurus wrasse--things like some sexy shrimp, a couple of species of glass shrimps, and several boxer crabs with those bits of anemones stuck to the claws. I could also consider putting in a pipe fish or even a tank-raised sea horse or two, or maybe one or two ruby red dragonets or a mandarin goby--things that would never be able to get enough food in my DT with the aggressive-eating fish I have in the DT.

epstein · Nov 22, 2016

Baby steps.... start with Wicker move one piece make room then think about expanding. start with the smallest feed pump possible and feed from and return to your sump that way if you turn the system off the feed will affect flow and cause a flood. Also go with the thickest hose you can and simply run it on the floor. wire ties with loops work great for mounting so one doesnt accidentally pulled and cause a flood. Id use a computer fan to draw air out .....

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

If I had the chiller in the outer cabinet and a tank above that with the macro algae, anemones, etc., how would that need to be plumbed to connect the chiller and the tank above it to the sump under the DT?

Also, I've seen some local items for sale on craigslist that involved a 35g or 55g tank with stand for $100 or $125. But they weren't with any holes for plumbing. How difficult/much of a pain in the neck would it be to buy something like that and then drill holes into it for plumbing (assuming the tank I bought was glass)?

epstein · Nov 22, 2016

Forget buying a used tank. you have no way what it was used for . Copper Chemicals reptile stuff ... No Thank You. Look at Petco for a dollar a gallon tank or find one from a reefer.Plumbing can be done a host of ways . Depending which way you go. A refuge needs low flow so it can work its magic on the water ...

saltyfilmfolks · Nov 22, 2016

RobertN said:
So what if I were to get another cabinet with a similar stain and put it against this wall.....then either drill holes on the side of it just opposite to the stand's door or remove all or most of that side of the cabinet. And drill holes in the stand on the right wall of it--the wall that is just next to this room's wall in the photo. And then couldn't I move the chiller into that cabinet and just get longer tubing to go to and from the chiller to and from the sump/"Y" tubing that is part of the return flow to the tank? And this would open up space in the stand next to the sump so that I could put a real refugium in the stand--yes? Is this feasible?

Other than the new/added cabinet, would I need anything besides longer tubing?

now yer cookin'

epstein said:
A refuge needs low flow so it can work its magic on the water ...

Agree to disagree. plants love flow, air or water. Imo skimmers and new school sumps like low flow as it helps act as a gravity filter

its hard to type cuz epstein's face keeps cracking me up!

RobertN · Nov 22, 2016

So if I chose to start simple with just moving the chiller into a wicker basket or cabinet, couldn't I just keep the chiller connected the same as it is now (see photo with this post) with just longer tubing of the same size? Or is there a problem that would arise with the chiller being several feet farther from the sump?