How to quickly neutralize bleach?

[KrisReef]

A long time ago a fellow reefer had bleach dumped into his tank by burglars overnight.. I can maybe understand robbing a house for money.. but why destroy an aquarium just for fun..

I think the likely answer to this why question is similar to why do the police always check out husbands and wives of murdered victims first when they find a dead body?
I have heard of multiple fish store sabotage incidents that were likely caused by competitors and/or customers who had a personal reason to inflict injury.

It probably wasn’t a random burglary.

 

[flying4fish]

I used to run a marine hatchery and I routinely sterilized water with bleach and then neutralized it with sodium thiosulfate. We used the sterile water for algae cultures to feed rotifers.

 

[Dr. D]

Tell your mom that its better to use RODI water to clean glass - its a very good gass cleaner and no toxic residues. Many professional window cleaners use RODI water nowadays.

Sincerely Lasse

Yes— I have a large home with very tall windows, and when I was looking for cleaning options, I ended up buying a low-end commercial system, which is essentially a simple resin tank that filters TDS, hooked to a long hose/handle setup. This was before I got into reefing or knew what RODI water was, but it’s the same concept as my fancier aquarium RODI system.

 

[Dr. D]

Sadly my chemistry knowledge, never strong, has faded with time, and I can’t help with the original question.

Personally I’m more worried about pouring salt water in the washing machine, which could get me into real trouble.

 

[Malcontent]

But you can use Vitamin C instead - no NH4 as residue

C₆H₈O₆ + HClO → C₆H₆O₆ + HCl + H₂O

And the reaction between hypochlorous acid and sodium thiosulfate would produce ammonium?

Ascorbic acid is also known to have a short shelf-life...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And the reaction between hypochlorous acid and sodium thiosulfate would produce ammonium?

Ascorbic acid is also known to have a short shelf-life...

No. There’s no N in bleach or thiosulfate.

 

[Lasse]

And the reaction between hypochlorous acid and sodium thiosulfate would produce ammonium?

Ascorbic acid is also known to have a short shelf-life...

My bad - its hot weather here in Scandinavia for the moment. I was answered to this below

and most importantly, how will you deal with the ammonia produced from the thiosulfate?

I trust Miami Reef and did not check at the formula for thiosulfate - on the other hand I should know that there is no N in sodium thiosulfate. I defend myself with the diagnosis - temporary cerebral hemorrhage

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Miami Reef]

No. There’s no N in bleach or thiosulfate.

My bad - its hot weather here in Scandinavia for the moment. I was answered to this below


I trust Miami Reef and did not check at the formula for thiosulfate - on the other hand I should know that there is no N in sodium thiosulfate. I defend myself with the diagnosis - temporary cerebral hemorrhage

Sincerely Lasse

I got the info from the chloramine/chlorine article:

Thiosulfate is also equally suited to dechlorinating free chlorine in water, and it has gained wide use in marine and freshwater aquaria. Unfortunately, the ammonia that is produced as a result of the reaction is still toxic. Consequently, thiosulfate alone is not always adequate for eliminating toxicity from chloramine

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

 

[Rjramos]

@Miami Reef, also from Miami, wondering what made you bring this up? Bleach is definitely kept from children in households. So, I assume, this was an adult sabotage you heard of or experienced lol! Truthfully, this happened to me in my previous marriage, I was accused of paying too much attention to my reef aquarium and threats were made towards it. Then one night, in argument, all my fish were gasping and dying on the bottom. I lost all my fish. Next morning went to Haulover cut and loaded up around 50 gal of saltwater. Brought it home, and changed 50 gal out of 65 gal display. Some corals suffered but most recovered, and 2 in particular are 30 and 31 years old. As for me, that marriage ended in divorce in 2006, and nowadays, I don’t have 1 65 gal reef. I have 5 reef tanks and one happy fiancee that loves what I do.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Miami Reef, also from Miami, wondering what made you bring this up? Bleach is definitely kept from children in households. So, I assume, this was an adult sabotage you heard of or experienced lol!

Which part of Miami?

I brought it up because my mind likes to imagine weird scenarios to see how I’d solve the situation. I don’t have any mischievous children, resentful partners, or mafias out to get me. lol

Now, if we’re going to be real, I also invented a scenario of someone pouring a bottle of muriatic acid to the sump, but that’s a topic for another day. lol

The problem to solve with the acid scenerio is finding a way to increase the alk fast, but also quickly dealing with the resulting very low pH.

You can message me. I’d like to know more people near my area.

 

[Rjramos]

Which part of Miami?

I brought it up because my mind likes to imagine weird scenarios to see how I’d solve the situation. I don’t have any mischievous children, resentful partners, or mafias out to get me. lol

Now, if we’re going to be real, I also invented a scenario of someone pouring a bottle of muriatic acid to the sump, but that’s a topic for another day. lol

The problem to solve with the acid scenerio is finding a way to increase the alk fast, but also quickly dealing with the resulting very low pH.

You can message me. I’d like to know more people near my area.

I am just east of MIA. Near the oldest still running, aquarium store in Miami, Aquarama since 1967 I believe. Rubios Corals also just North of me. Colin Foord’s, 2 giant coral labs, most recent Native Coral lab, less than a mile away.

 

[Miami Reef]

Aquarama

I’m eleven minutes away from there lol.

 

[Lasse]

I got the info from the chloramine/chlorine article:

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

In this example - the NH4 comes from the chloramine part - and I think it will be the same with C-vitamin

NH2Cl + Na2S2O3 + H2O = NaHSO4 + NH3 + HCl and NH3 will form NH4 if pH i low enough​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Rjramos]

I’m eleven minutes away from there lol.

If we haven’t met we will soon. I’ll send you a PM.

 

[coralmonsters.judy]

I'm afraid I posted like Scarface.
But I did refrain from grabbing my chainsaw to resolve the conflict.

I agree with Kris on this one lol

 

[mmorrison55]

Was there ever a consensus on the best approach?

How much bleach in the sump would prove to be fatal to your livestock? And how much time do you have to react?

Im sure the biggest thing it would depend on would be your total volume and how much bleach was introduced. lets for the sake of saying it was not sabotage and someone emptied an entire gallon of bleach, but rather it was a brain fart moment where you thought your were dosing a Ca supplement and happened to grab the nearby bottle of bleach instead and dosed 1/4 cup of bleach into your return pump section of your 100 total gallon system?

How much time do you have to react and what steps would you take?