How to stable no3 po4 with cheato

[JohnIsNewToReefKeeping]

So i recently bottomed out my nutrients with 14 hrs of light on my cheato that's in a 35-gallon section of the sump, a skimmer running 24/7 and a 2-gallon water change daily on my 110-gallon system including the sump.

My question is how can I control my nutrients while having a refugium, so with a skimmer, if its skims too much, you just let it run for less. for water changes, you just change less water. While keeping the food going into the tank constant.

however, with refugiums, I am finding it difficult to wrap my mind around. While I can lower the hrs of light, there is still a lot of cheato there that is exponentially uptaking nutrients, since as the cheato gets bigger it takes more nutrients up. So that means you don't change the light but you remove the cheato. But the problem is, the more you have the more it will consume nutrients. So if you have your protein skimmer tuned in and your water changed tuned in but then take away 1/4 of the cheato then your system will not be stable since now there is a lot less cheato to uptake nutrients thus less nutrients will be taken up in that 14hr window, until the cheato grows back to where it was previously where it was.

My question is what do you do in this situation, I would ideally like something that is set it and forget it to an extent unless something changes like new corals or new fish. But having this monthly issue of removing cheato and then having this swing of not having your filtration adequate enough.

I guess a remedy for this situation would be more frequent weekly removal of refugium and a lesser quantity, however, there will still be a swing since you will remove the cheato at the end of the wind.

What are some ways you guys figured out to keep your filtration stable with cheato, or is it a better option to ditch cheato and go carbon dosing, to replace cheato, if stability is what I am looking for?

 

[Jason Scalise]

I think you have to think about it in terms of stability and homeostasis.
It’s not that chaeto is good or bad or better or worse than other methods…as you probably know.

It very much depends on the nutrients going in and the capacity to remove or outflow them somehow.

Frankly, if you are bottoming out on nutrients and that is undesirable for you, then you should question whether you need a refugium and its nutrient export ability in the first place (for now).

You could run your refugium grow light for much less time to slow down the growth of your macro, for instance. You could also add more nutrients (feed more) on the other end. It just is a matter of levers to pull on your balanced equation. But each tank and environment will be a bit different such that broad or directional concepts are applicable and less about specific dos and donts, I think.

If you are growing macro and are having to harvest it a lot, that means it is effectively eating nutrients. So, perhaps slow its growth down (less photons) and less Macro to begin with. You could even remove it altogether and then monitor what happens to your balance.

I had that issue because my bio load was not too large but my filtration was overboard for it. I had to reduce skimmer time and grow lights and I was able to right size things and catch up, so to speak.

My sense is, you should make small changes on a limited number of variables and then reassess …. Before changing tactics altogether.

 

[JohnIsNewToReefKeeping]

Bump

 

[GARRIGA]

My understanding of plants being they still consume nutrients to some extent during the dark period but not equivalent to lights at full intensity. Therefore, adjusting the light period should help and I’d first experiment with that. The other option is using the Triton recommendation of not removing the Chaeto so it has die off and that might make tuning easier since it’s not constantly changing and adding nutrients back.

Haven’t worked with macro algae but have been researching it since the 80s when turf scrubbers first came to my attention and have put these theories to practice with freshwater plants although goal there was to simply bottom nutrients out and stabilize alkalinity.

Ended up just leaving the lights on 24/7 and trimming excess almost daily. Inadvertently would just leave it alone and there would be die off yet nutrients remained bottomed out.

BTW, might want to turn the skimmer off and just use it when needed such as when needing to clear bacteria or ammonia from a fish dying.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

So i recently bottomed out my nutrients with 14 hrs of light on my cheato that's in a 35-gallon section of the sump, a skimmer running 24/7 and a 2-gallon water change daily on my 110-gallon system including the sump.

My question is how can I control my nutrients while having a refugium, so with a skimmer, if its skims too much, you just let it run for less. for water changes, you just change less water. While keeping the food going into the tank constant.

however, with refugiums, I am finding it difficult to wrap my mind around. While I can lower the hrs of light, there is still a lot of cheato there that is exponentially uptaking nutrients, since as the cheato gets bigger it takes more nutrients up. So that means you don't change the light but you remove the cheato. But the problem is, the more you have the more it will consume nutrients. So if you have your protein skimmer tuned in and your water changed tuned in but then take away 1/4 of the cheato then your system will not be stable since now there is a lot less cheato to uptake nutrients thus less nutrients will be taken up in that 14hr window, until the cheato grows back to where it was previously where it was.

My question is what do you do in this situation, I would ideally like something that is set it and forget it to an extent unless something changes like new corals or new fish. But having this monthly issue of removing cheato and then having this swing of not having your filtration adequate enough.

I guess a remedy for this situation would be more frequent weekly removal of refugium and a lesser quantity, however, there will still be a swing since you will remove the cheato at the end of the wind.

What are some ways you guys figured out to keep your filtration stable with cheato, or is it a better option to ditch cheato and go carbon dosing, to replace cheato, if stability is what I am looking for?

The Chaeto only uptakes nutrients whilst photosynthesising, so light hours are directly related to nutrient uptake for our intents and purposes…

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

I think this is also a chasing numbers worry; the thing to do is find a schedule for fuge lighting and regular Chaeto trimming (say once a month), and track your Nitrates and Phosphates, keep a diary with test results or use a free app like Marine Box to keep a record. You’re never really going to get a rock steady Nutrient level (and personally I don’t think Acropora care too much about it being absolutely stable). My Nutrient levels tend to float in the range of 6 - 9ppm Nitrate and 0.3 - 0.9 phosphates, but never exceed these (measured with Hanna checker and confirmed by ICP). I run a small fuge with a Tunze light and Carbon dose to get this on a 680L system with good fish stocking levels, fed heavily 3 times a day, quite large grain shallow sand bed too! OK it’s a bit belt and braces doing both but I figure if one fails for any reason the other is there for stability…

 

[JohnIsNewToReefKeeping]

The Chaeto only uptakes nutrients whilst photosynthesising, so light hours are directly related to nutrient uptake for our intents and purposes…

The more cheato grows the more it uptakes during the same photo period not as simple and just controlling the amount of light but you also need to understand how much grows and take out the excess not too late or not take out too much thus ruining the balance. I’m just trying to stay under 5ppm not really number chaseing but trying to figure out how to keep things stable

 

[Rmckoy]

Trying to maintain balance is very tricky .
far too many variables to take into consideration .

I would take one step at a time and wait to see how it affects the system .

start by removing a small handful of cheato once per week . Or every other week .

if nutrients still maintain the same remove a little more until you have detectable balance or increase

 

[GARRIGA]

Trying to maintain balance is very tricky .
far too many variables to take into consideration .

Why it might be simpler to let the system run as needed then add nutrients to bring the balance up. Remove the same amount of chaeto daily or weekly. Same feeding routine. Then add what's needed, if needed.

Did something similar in freshwater with water lettuce. Required my removing a section of the surface weekly to maintain the growth of the floating plants. Wasn't trying to maintain any exact levels but figured out that all other variables being the same daily that it grew predictably the same.

 

[Schulks]

BTW, might want to turn the skimmer off and just use it when needed such as when needing to clear bacteria or ammonia from a fish dying.

Can you elaborate on how a skimmer removes bacteria and ammonia? Is it just by taking out decaying bits before they reach those forms?

 

[GARRIGA]

Can you elaborate on how a skimmer removes bacteria and ammonia? Is it just by taking out decaying bits before they reach those forms?

Skimmer removes particulates that would have otherwise decomposed into ammonia to your latter point and bacteria being particulates also get removed. Same concept as mechanical filtration assuming that trapped is removed from the system before it decomposes.

What I've never bothered to understand is how small a particulate that skimming can remove but others might chime in or a quick google search although every time I try that it's like going down a rabbit hole until one finds creditable information and I'm speaking in general. Lots of anecdotal evidence supports most hobbies and it's a matter of weeding out the nonsense.