How to tell when to stop using prime.

coralcoralcoral10

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Hello it’s me again. Coral. My
Tank is now almost 3 weeks old after a 46 gallon transfer to 144 gallon. My Nitrites are at .7 and my ammonia is reading 5-6ppm. My fish are all alive. They are eating and behaviors haven’t changed since ammonia spike. All my coral is either dead and gone or closed. After the initial ammonia spike I did a 60% water change and there was no difference in ammonia. After reading all the responses im realizing there is a chance that the prime I’ve been dosing may be giving me false reading. But what if it’s not. Since Saturday I’ve been doing with prime and microbacter. All other paremters are fine. 1.025 temp 79. PH 8. nitrates and alk were good when tested at LFS. I’m going to stop dosing prime and test tomorrow but from my understanding prime can stay in the water for 48 hours. How do I know when to stop dosing prime and get proper readings because if I do have this such high ammonia won’t the stoppage of prime kill the fish. But also if I don’t have these levels and I continually dose prime how will I ever get proper results. I test with the salt water master kit. Fish are all eating they are fine and i haven’t lost any fish since the ammonia spike but levels that high are toxic. What should I do. How do I get these corals to open. How should or shouldn’t I dose. Please help I’m a bit confused as to my next steps. Thank you all for your time. Your responses have been most helpful.
 

Chrisv.

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So if I'm not mistaken, the badge specifically tests for NH3, where as api and most other tests evaluate NH3 and NH4 combined. This matters because NH3 is the form of ammonia that's toxic to fish.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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So if I'm not mistaken, the badge specifically tests for NH3, where as api and most other tests evaluate NH3 and NH4 combined. This matters because NH3 is the form of ammonia that's toxic to fish.

Just to be clear, it is not important which you measure, only that you understand which one. The two forms interconvert thousands of times a second. It's not like there is a population of nontoxic NH4+ sitting around.

Total ammonia with a kit can be a better bet because its a higher number so has better low level sensitivity.
 
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coralcoralcoral10

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Just to be clear, it is not important which you measure, only that you understand which one. The two forms interconvert thousands of times a second. It's not like there is a population of nontoxic NH4+ sitting around.

Total ammonia with a kit can be a better bet because its a higher number so has better low level sensitivity.
Ok thank you. It should be here today ill
Post the results as soon as I have it set up
 

Chrisv.

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Just to be clear, it is not important which you measure, only that you understand which one. The two forms interconvert thousands of times a second. It's not like there is a population of nontoxic NH4+ sitting around.

Total ammonia with a kit can be a better bet because its a higher number so has better low level sensitivity.
Could you clarify, does api measure both simultaneously? Is it correct that at pH below 8.0 the equilibrium is shifted so far toward nh4+ that even though it is constantly being converted to NH3, the effective concentration of NH3 is low enough at any given point so as not to be a concern? Or is NH3 taken up by marine life quickly enough that NH4 is toxic due to rapid conversion to NH3 followed by biofixation of NH3?

Or am I thinking about this incorrectly?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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API reports total ammonia.

It is not true that the amount of NH3 becomes unimportant at pH below 8.0. But it is certainly a smaller fraction of the total as you go lower and lower:

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

"Ammonia can also be very important during tank crashes. In all of these situations, I recommend striving to keep ammonia below 0.1 ppm total NH4-N. If the level rises above 0.25 ppm total NH4-N, I suggest taking immediate action"

1634575891523.png

1634575901374.png
 

Chrisv.

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Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley. After high ammonia is treated with something like prime, does the resulting complex still inhibit the metabolism of ammonia to nitrite? My understanding is that ammonia will still show up on a test kit after prime is added.

Specifically, I am wondering: if a tank like OPs has high ammonia and the ammonia is neutralized by prime, and ammonia still tests high and nitrites and nitrates test low, is there a benefit to doing a large WC and running purigen (or something similar) to reduce ammonia (or ammonia+prime complex) before the nitrification cycle can get into gear?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley. After high ammonia is treated with something like prime, does the resulting complex still inhibit the metabolism of ammonia to nitrite? My understanding is that ammonia will still show up on a test kit after prime is added.

Specifically, I am wondering: if a tank like OPs has high ammonia and the ammonia is neutralized by prime, and ammonia still tests high and nitrites and nitrates test low, is there a benefit to doing a large WC and running purigen (or something similar) to reduce ammonia (or ammonia+prime complex) before the nitrification cycle can get into gear?

Seachem does not allow any clear understanding of their product, so it is impossible to say what happens, or even to verify the Seachem claims of a benefit:

.
 

JCOLE

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When it transforms and decides to join the Decepticons. Oh wait.....wrong Prime!

optimus prime GIF
 
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