how to utilize 2 circuits for redundancy

[Davy Jones]

In my fish room i have 2 circuits, which is nice as I have enough power for all my tanks, however, last night one of the 2 circuits tripped (the one with my apex attached) and the tank was offline for 7 hours as I was already sleeping and didnt see any alerts until this morning. The second circuit stayed powered on.

I am sure something out there exists that will allow something with a single power cord to draw power from 2 sources, and supply power even if one goes down.

Any suggestions?

 

[ReefPig]

In my fish room i have 2 circuits, which is nice as I have enough power for all my tanks, however, last night one of the 2 circuits tripped (the one with my apex attached) and the tank was offline for 7 hours as I was already sleeping and didnt see any alerts until this morning. The second circuit stayed powered on.

I am sure something out there exists that will allow something with a single power cord to draw power from 2 sources, and supply power even if one goes down.

Any suggestions?

I've not seen anything for the hobby, but I've seen similar for servers, with redundant PSU's and supplies.

I guess the challenge would be if the device legitimately tripped one circuit, then the supply was swapped over to the second circuit, and again trips it, then everything goes off line.

Usually when you have multiple circuits, you balance devices across them, ideally with redundant devices.
Such as, two returns, each on different circuits, powerheads spread across circuits, heaters on different circuits etc etc.

If it's just the Apex you're concerned about, I run a UPS just for my GHL, but the other GHL devices are not. This triggers an alarm if the power goes out, as the devices are not longer online (such as dosing pumps and KHD).

 

[Davy Jones]

I've not seen anything for the hobby, but I've seen similar for servers, with redundant PSU's and supplies.

I guess the challenge would be if the device legitimately tripped one circuit, then the supply was swapped over to the second circuit, and again trips it, then everything goes off line.

Usually when you have multiple circuits, you balance devices across them, ideally with redundant devices.
Such as, two returns, each on different circuits, powerheads spread across circuits, heaters on different circuits etc etc.

If it's just the Apex you're concerned about, I run a UPS just for my GHL, but the other GHL devices are not. This triggers an alarm if the power goes out, as the devices are not longer online (such as dosing pumps and KHD).

Well mostly concerned about the apex as that is what 90% of the equipment run on. I guess I should pick up a second energy bar and split the items between the 2. Just seems like there could be an easier way to do it. Thanks!

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

With basic wiring skill you can pretty easily install a 8 pin 110v relay switch that will automatically switch to the backup power source when the first fails.

I used one to build my own battery backup. I wrote up how I did it here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-battery-backup.709916/

I would do exactly the same thing to solve your problem, except use a 110v relay rated for the amps you need. Then plug a cord into each wall circuit. Splice the main circuit to activate the relay electromagnet. Then run the common out to the Apex. Then if the first power source fails, the relay will automatically switch to the backup power source.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I utilize these ( there are other brands)in electrical installations for data centers. Dual input A&B phase, 20 amp rating. We'll usually plug one into a ups protected circuit and the other into regular utility power in most cases.
https://www.tripplite.com/1-9kw-sin...nputs-2-12ft-cords-1u-rack-mount~PDUMH20ATNET
They are a rack mount but would likely be a viable option for you. Not sure on pricing/ availability.

 

[Davy Jones]

Thanks All,

I think I will be picking up a couple ups' and a couple energybars. I will split the main life support between each circuit so if one goes down, half the tank will still be running.

The Rack mount automatic transfer switch is exactly what I was looking for as well, but money/space is an issue there so will have to make due for now.

 

[ca1ore]

I would just put the apex brain (and house router) onto an UPS and set it to send alerts should either energy bar lose power. Split equipment across two energy bars. That's what I have done.

 

[User1]

This is what I have but please note I'm using Neptune Cor pumps. You could do something similar with other pumps.

I have:

2 x Cor 15
1 x Cor 20

The Cor 15's use the 1 Link for power off the eb832. I have two EB832's one primary with most if not all of the equipment on. 1 Cor 15 is plugged into this unit. I have a second EB832 which is a stand by. I have the 2nd Cor 15 pluged into this 1 Link. I also have 1 heater plugged in. One of the Cor 15's is running a return line and the other is powering my skimmer. Apex, EB832, on one circuit.

I have a Cor 20. It uses its own power supply / brick. It is also running a return line. The one with the longest plumbing run. This return pump is on a battery backup which in turn is plugged into a different wall outlet. It could be a different circuit like you have but since I don't have one it is in a different wall and battery backup / surge protector.

I'm using similar pumps that use the same connection fittings. I can take any of them offline in a minute, swap, replace, and be back up and running in no time. Should a EB832 poo out I still have a secondary / spare to swap to. Heater works, Cor 15 works. I'm good. If I lose power I have a Cor 20 that will run for 20 to 30 minutes with reduced power and will feed the tank.

Redundancy in pumps, hot swap, spares, and different power plug outside the Apex ecosystem. In fact I believe Neptune recommends the Cor 20 to be plugged outside of the EB's. Or someone on their forum suggested it and I've run with it ever since. Can be done with similar controllers, etc. Not unique to Neptune but this is what works for me.

Edit: hopefully this makes sense and more or less how I have it set up without looking at it exactly Getting older so I have the right to be incorrect

 

[MnFish1]

This has happened to me. 2 times now. I do not think you can build in redundancy the way you are thinking (reliably) - unless you know for sure what caused the first circuit to trip. To me (and I'm not an electrician), if the apex 'brain' or something plugged into the EB causes the circuit to trip, how would having a second circuit plugged into the same equipment help the situation - ie. why wouldn't it trip also. To me the only thing that would help is if the GPS/circuit itself was the actual problem as compared to the Apex EBB? I also do not see how having 2 EBB's would help unless you know it was one EBB that failed - while the other was working.

I have solved this by Not using the Apex to control 'everything' (i.e. using their own controllers for Lights, Gyres, etc) and plugging them into another surge suppressor, circuit.

But - having said all that - what solution did you come up with - and what did you discover was the initial problem?

 

[o2manyfish]

There is a huge flaw in your - transfer switch logic --- You're killing the 'redundancy'! If something caused the first circuit to trip, and you switch over, then you trip your second breaker - Well now the hole tank is off and redundanct circuits are both off.

Yes split the load between the two circuits. Put an EB8 on each circuit. But most importantly resolve how this situation can't happen again. Go online and order a pair of Audible of GFCI outlets. When these trip they start beeping. Now you have a way of know when the circuit is out without staring at the tank to guess is everything running.

Adding your Apex to a UPS is a good idea, as long as the Apex and your local router, switch or wifi AP isn't on the same circuit.

Load balancing is the main key --- Think about what do you need on both circuits so that if either one fails the livestock has the longest chance for you to find the issue. Put your return pump and your intank pumps on 2 different circuits - so there is always water movement.


Dave B