Hows my cycle doing..?

[IslandLifeReef]

Im little confused right now though I will say. On one hand people are saying not to test nitrate until after nitrite hits zero, but also that Nitrite doesnt need to be factored in to a cycle. Then theres the fact that an ammonia reat can show .2 even if its actually zero.

Ok thanks. I suppose the question is, if I wait then for how long. If I keep waiting will Ammonia and Nitrite (or at least Nitrite) eventually drop to zero?
I'm using red sea testing kits.

Will your test kit show 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite? That's tough to say. These are home test kits that are subject to a lot of possible errors. You may show 0 ppm, you may not. After about 30 days, your tank can be called cycled under normal circumstances. The key is to follow one method and stick with it. The advice and article that has been linked is the path I would follow if it were my tank.

 

[peterire]

Might be worth saying as well that the seachem alert badge in the tank is yellow, so ammonia below -0.02 ppm.
So this should prove theres no free/toxic ammonia in the water..

 

[Twoddler]

Great thread, I'm 18 days into cycling my tank, with the same issues, is it or is not it, I'm not in any rush, no fish, no cuc, just ghost feeding and managing ammonia levels, Got to say though as a noob it's the lack of knowledge and experience I have, that makes reefing challenging. Forums like this are a valuable asset for noobs like me who can draw on other members knowledge and experience

 

[brandon429]

hey nice to meet you can you post a tank pic

we are looking for subtle little clues in the pic if any to define cycle status (the test kits hardly ever help us its the tank pics). if nothing stands out, we have your 18 days + all bottle bac has been tested to work within a week to fall back on


b

 

[peterire]

Great thread, I'm 18 days into cycling my tank, with the same issues, is it or is not it, I'm not in any rush, no fish, no cuc, just ghost feeding and managing ammonia levels, Got to say though as a noob it's the lack of knowledge and experience I have, that makes reefing challenging. Forums like this are a valuable asset for noobs like me who can draw on other members knowledge and experience

Yea i agree, the lack of knowledge is frustrating, esp when the experienced people tell you the tests can be wrong or not relevant, and thats what your using to measure progress!

 

[Twoddler]

hey nice to meet you can you post a tank pic

we are looking for subtle little clues in the pic if any to define cycle status (the test kits hardly ever help us its the tank pics). if nothing stands out, we have your 18 days + all bottle bac has been tested to work within a week to fall back on


b

 

[brandon429]

see that green growth of light algae on the left


that rock is 100% cycled, visually verified, ergo if all that rock came from the same source its all cycled now.

this is called benthic organism verification of a reef tank cycle, you cant find it on any written or published cycling materials because I made it up about ten years ago at reefcentral lol.

that doesnt mean its bad info/made up, just that its new

coralline especially, algae, diatoms riding the surface, any attached fanworms, all signify cycled rock as the first organism set to show up is nitrifying + mixed aerobic bacteria, and then long after you get the stuff we can easily spot in pics.



so was this live rock from a pet store or have you been curing it long enough to get those benthic growths

*the other live rocks looks to have been set long enough to have typical new tank diatoms or brown algae growths, all expected and common, and all totally confirming your cycle is done a while ago, before those growths seated in place.

 

[Twoddler]

Sorry my photographic skills are not great, diatoms on rock and substrate, abit of hair algae, not sure what the green patch on the rock is PH 8.2 Temp 25 .3c Ammonia reading 0.2 , Nitrite 0.7 Nitrate 30 salt 1025 also measured phosphate for the first time 0.4

 

[brandon429]

This thread right here will match your reef, everything listed explains your testing outcomes (which arent correct your ammonia is in the thousandths, not tenths, but only a certain tester can show you that)

nitrite doesnt factor and neither does your nitrate although nitrate is a nice triple confirmation of nitrification all set here.

see this thread, it applies 100% to your tank.

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

Your tank is ready to use right now. change water out for new, and begin.

 

[Twoddler]

see that green growth of light algae on the left


that rock is 100% cycled, visually verified, ergo if all that rock came from the same source its all cycled now.

this is called benthic organism verification of a reef tank cycle, you cant find it on any written or published cycling materials because I made it up about ten years ago at reefcentral lol.

that doesnt mean its bad info/made up, just that its new

coralline especially, algae, diatoms riding the surface, any attached fanworms, all signify cycled rock as the first organism set to show up is nitrifying + mixed aerobic bacteria, and then long after you get the stuff we can easily spot in pics.



so was this live rock from a pet store or have you been curing it long enough to get those benthic growths

*the other live rocks looks to have been set long enough to have typical new tank diatoms or brown algae growths, all expected and common, and all totally confirming your cycle is done a while ago, before those growths seated in place.

The tank and rock I got from another reefer who was retiring, it was a live established tank, The rock was out of the tank for about a week, I cleaned it, set the tank up and threw the rock back in lol

 

[brandon429]

hey neat. benthic rule still applies, where algae goes nitrifiers got there quicker and you dosed them with bottle bac I assume?

if not, then we just saw a very neat testament on the rebound abilities of partially dried out rock (but not fully dried or you couldnt be producing nitrate this quick off the rock bac)

either way, ammonia does not hold in the tenths in reefing, nh3 is dynamic and never static. most red sea readings show .2 in any tank they're ran in, you are set.

change water add a clean up crew and a few starter corals and it will all live. add fish when you choose a disease protocol or they'll die from ich/crypto

 

[Twoddler]

hey neat. benthic rule still applies, where algae goes nitrifiers got there quicker and you dosed them with bottle bac I assume?

if not, then we just saw a very neat testament on the rebound abilities of partially dried out rock (but not fully dried or you couldnt be producing nitrate this quick off the rock bac)

either way, ammonia does not hold in the tenths in reefing, nh3 is dynamic and never static. most red sea readings show .2 in any tank they're ran in, you are set.

change water add a clean up crew and a few starter corals and it will all live. add fish when you choose a disease protocol or they'll die from ich/crypto

Hi thanks for the info, just to clarify, I have not added any bottle bacteria , the only thing I did was set up a refugium using chaeto from a 3 yr established reef tank

 

[brandon429]

what a neat blended cycle you have there, parts from very rare places. you wont find a cycle blending those substrate characteristics on any current forum running

todays cycles are total live rock skip cycle transfers, or dry rocks plus bottle bac plus two clowns. not much in between. a few are curing setups from KP aquatics where bacteria are complete but dieoff has to occur due to ocean vs aquarium life.

outside baked in the sun is one way of holding live rocks, but inside in possible dampness helps too, how were they stored? I have a thread of one fellow who put lr on the shelf in a closet, shut the door and in a month retested (in saltwater w ammonium chloride) and got full oxidation out of the rock, damp isn't dry...

thats a lot of activity for only ten days, pretty impressive. its possible those could be just rehydrated dried algae, unless they really did grow there since you've set it up. it looks bright and crisply colored, if those are new growths or old ones Id lift up the live rock and clean them externally and set it back; it will have inherent nutrient stores from the prior setup that need to express back out and be guided out of the tank. quick uglies if not.

there is a light sheen of algae from the new / reflective sandbed this is all off and running well. that growths moved to the sandbed vs started with it, its maturing pretty quick due to prior life in/on the rock. total dry rock starts do not do this in ten days, they're still clean sterile

 

[brandon429]

adding in enough ammonia to barely raise the reading up to the next discernible change from current levels, then retesting in 24 hours is a nice way to proof it as well (see if it goes back down to .2, the movement counts not the hard zero reading)

with no life in the tank, adding ammonium chloride wont burn anything its an easy verification step. dont add too much or you'll need 48 hours for it to go back down, on non seneye test kits.

 

[Twoddler]

Yes after a 150 mile drive emptied the van ( The previous owner had stripped the tank same day ) lay the rock, still damp in the garden then submerced in ro, left for a week while I set the tank up ( was an unusual hot wk for UK lol ) scrubbed the rock, built the scape in the tank, it took me another wk to fill the tank with ro, 1000 ltrs app 220 UK gals, added and mixed salt in the tank, heated it up, initially had a massive ammonia spike, did all the plumbing based on YouTube vids, setup the filtration, skimmer, refugium with chaeto and rock, switched on the UV. When out bought red sea test kit (which I found difficult to read ) ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were all present. As a noob thought nothing of it, I just tested water everyday waiting for ammonia to come down, it did to almost none detectable, nitrite and nitrate were still high. I then started ghost feeding thinking I had to keep ammonia up until nitrites and nitrates started falling, joined this forum, noticed growth in the tank and here I am today lol

 

[Lasse]

Yea i agree, the lack of knowledge is frustrating, esp when the experienced people tell you the tests can be wrong or not relevant, and thats what your using to measure progress!

Tests are not useless - you should only know how to use the information they give.

I then started ghost feeding thinking I had to keep ammonia up until nitrites and nitrates started falling, joined this forum, noticed growth in the tank and here I am today lol

This is one of the most spreads myths in the reefing hobby - when the first step of the nitrification cycle is completed (NH3/NH4 -> NO2) you do not need to put in any extra NH4/NH3 as food for the existing bacteria. They will go dormant if there is a lack of NH3/NH4. First then the second step NO2->NO3 works - it is a need of more food for the first group of bacteria and they will get that from your fish and invertebrates. When you are in this stage - rise the food input slowly so already existing bacteria get time to grow in biomass. Nitrification bacteria is slow growers.

IME - ghost feeding is never needed - what you need if you have a QT that have been out of fish for a prolonged period is to start feeding the new fish very slowly - letting the dormant nitrification bacteria be active and give them time to "propagate"

With ghost feeding, rutten shrimps, adding chemical NH3/NH4 or whatever - you will only create a too concentrated nutrient soup that will need tons of CUC when you turn on the light. In my earlier mentioned article - I try to outline how to start the total biological life in a new aquaria without any forms of "ugly" stages. With input of small but efficient amounts of nutrients you can easily start an aquarium without any problems if you balance your stock of living organisms.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[peterire]

Close ups of my Rock if it helps determine status of my tank..

 

[peterire]

Small update for anyone following.

My LFS is in agreement now with adding two clowns, based on the low test numbers. Also recommended the careful feeding regime to begin with. They will do a test themselves of the water tomorrow and if it checks out I'm good to go.

 

[peterire]

So LFS tested the waters' ammonia today, came back zero! They used a salifert test, I was using Red Sea (which was .2 today still). So I could have possibly had fish in the tank a week or so ago..

Anyway, they are in now and doing well so far.

 

[Twoddler]

Looking good, just put a small cuc in mine today