HUGE question regarding cycling

[Timfish]

All you need is fish food and thirty days, no bottle bac, no testing, it will 100% work every time. Bottle bac is only needed if we want your first option or to be ready much quicker.

copy this, a fish food + 30 day wait no bottle bac cycle:

Build Thread - My SPS Waterbox Peninsula Mini 15

Hi all. Long time member (I think I joined right around when R2R started or took off years ago) but got out of the hobby for about 6 years and now I am back! I don't see many build threads for the PM 15 (mostly the 25) so thought I'd share my journey here. This post will be a bit behind...

www.reef2reef.com

this way exchanges tedious testing and dosing for a time frame already known to complete the job (number of days on all cycling charts, thirty days )


agreed on the live rock it’s a headache saver. Too bad you can’t get some

a nice benefit of that post above is he made his own live rock in a mere seven months ish~

So i just keep feeding the tank for 30 days?

What Brandon429 said. You can't stop a cycle from happening. Even if you just put saltwater in a container you're going to have the nitrifying bacteria establish themselves. Adding any kind of food source just helps the process along.

 

[The Fry]

What Brandon429 said. You can't stop a cycle from happening. Even if you just put saltwater in a container you're going to have the nitrifying bacteria establish themselves. Adding any kind of food source just helps the process along.

oh alright
i thought the bacteria had to be added manually or it would never form. Just threw in some shrimp. Does anyone want pics of the tank?

 

[brandon429]

The free and simple cycling process and paradigm set options have been usurped by bottle bac sellers and companies

they are erasing these free and simple and can’t fail timed options with the fear of stall and endless open ended wait times, but when it’s time for those same sellers to create instant reefs at marine conventions all of a sudden magically nobody stumbles, stalls, and misses a sales ready date.


why is it nobody at Macna has given an even-handed update on true and free and can’t fail cycling options? Because bottle bac sellers get the podium

we have not been formally told about timed wait cycles like this one. They specifically do not have an ammonia spike required (I know you know this Tim I’m just soapboxing) as the minimal levels of ammonia via heterotrophic digestion of feed substrates will feed the cycling bacteria the environment provides, free


since it’s not a 2 ppm peak attained most cycle peers will agree the system cannot carry a proper fish load at the end due to the lower incidence of ammonia, and that’s untrue. Given the surface area we all use, and waiting that long, all the surfaces are covered in cycling bac


the slow and constant degradation of a shrimp or a pinch of fish food over the four weeks wait may or may not register on cheap non digital cycling test kits. Our bottle bac companies never, ever, never teach a testless cycle option because then we wouldn’t panic and buy extra bottle bac when tests didn’t line up, they depend on us wielding these cheap test kits in ways that cause doubt and re purchase.

bottle bac has a legit place, to save wait times is it’s benefit.

 

[Dbichler]

Why can’t you get bottled bacteria?

I don’t think that simply adding fish food without bottled bacteria, fish, live rock, or any sort of seeding of bacteria will lead to a cycled tank in 30 days (it’s possible, but not guaranteed), and to suggest someone do so and then throw some fish in without testing is irresponsible, bad advice.

Cycling with fish is unethical. You can’t get a little bit of sand or rock or filter media from the store that sells the fish? You can’t get bottled bacteria from Amazon? There’s got to be some sort of source of bacteria other than live fish that you can use to kickstart your cycle. If you can’t find any source, then cycle it for 30 days (make sure to ghost feed), but TEST to verify that the tank is actually processing ammonia before adding any fish (this is regardless of which method you use). Again, using live fish to cycle is unethical and should not be used.

Any ammonia source will start the cycle and 30 days it will be cycled

 

[The Fry]

Any ammonia source will start the cycle and 30 days it will be cycled

Alrighty! Ive thrown in some fish food (full shrimp, its arowana food which i used to feed my oscars and it says i can use it for SW fish aswell) and ill check for ammonia tmrw at around 8 o clock my time to see if it spiked

 

[ReefCheef]

So i just keep feeding the tank for 30 days?

Live sand is vacuum sealed. It will not be dry by the time it reaches you. It lasts years in the bag.

 

[brandon429]

Earlier above it was mentioned if ammonia doesn't spike your cycle is still done when the end date comes. Sorry you're getting incorrect information leading you to testing and eventual doubt at the end, peers can be rascals but they mean well

Good luck on your tank, pick a disease control method directly from the stickies in the disease forum before you add fish at the end

 

[brandon429]

Inputting past the required small amount of feed required to do the job specifically doesn't get you a stronger cycle, it gets you extra algae feed


This cycle timing is the slowest selected, natural inoc

Free but slow

You can't decrease the wait time once you input one shrimp and wait, or a pinch of fish feed or two and wait. Eight pinches, enough to spike ammonia for example doesn't decrease the wait time it increases organic loading beyond the source ability for incoming bacteria

This is a thirty day testless run any way its sliced

The only folks qualified to assess the ready date any sooner will be ten seneye owners given proper incentive lol, until then default to what a cycle chart says for this selected method

 

[MaxTremors]

Any ammonia source will start the cycle and 30 days it will be cycled

It very well may be, but recommending that newbies not test that nitrification is happening is just bad advice. Let’s also not gloss over the fact that it was suggested that the OP could NOT add ammonia or food source, wait 30 days, and then stock fish without testing. Again, it’s possible that the tank could be cycled, but this particular method of cycling and the timetable given is based off of just one ‘experiment’ (one tank that was cycled this way and documented) to suggest a person with no experience use this method and add fish without testing that ammonia can be processed is irresponsible.

 

[Dbichler]

Never said don’t test but there’s no need for bottled bacteria we all started back in the day with just a piece of shrimp. Cycled many tanks this way and never took longer than 30 days

 

[Spare time]

I don't trust people saying that the bacteria magically appeared in their tank simply from ghost feeding. That is quite literally impossible. That same logic could say that if i put dog food in a bowl, a dog will appear. If there is a dog near by, sure but it can't appear out of thin air. Marine nitrifyers aren't just hanging around on everything. The person who said it can most likely had contamination (my guess is via aerosols) and they managed to get into the bucket with dry rock. If you can't get bottled bacteria, nor any live object, then you'll have to find another way around if you want to continue. Do you have an lfs with any to help out?

 

[The Fry]

I don't trust people saying that the bacteria magically appeared in their tank simply from ghost feeding. That is quite literally impossible. That same logic could say that if i put dog food in a bowl, a dog will appear. If there is a dog near by, sure but it can't appear out of thin air. Marine nitrifyers aren't just hanging around on everything. The person who said it can most likely had contamination (my guess is via aerosols) and they managed to get into the bucket with dry rock. If you can't get bottled bacteria, nor any live object, then you'll have to find another way around if you want to continue. Do you have an lfs with any to help out?

I do have an lfs, but remove the local lol
The closest sw shop is around 2 hours away from me

 

[The Fry]

hey guys..... So i just tested the tank for ammonia and its at 0.5 ppm. Does that mean the cycle has started???

 

[Spare time]

I do have an lfs, but remove the local lol
The closest sw shop is around 2 hours away from me

Oh haha. Well it may be worth the trip if possible to get a hold of something eith bacteria on it or bacteria. If that is not possible, I am not sure as basically you need something/anything that could have the bacteria on it. It doesn't need to be rock. Shells, pebbles, sponges, etc. Bottles are pest free, but again any of the things I listed will have some of the bacteria on it so long as they come from some marine setup

 

[brandon429]

Lol


@howaboutme

we are in a cycle conspiracy you and me

ur right it’s a train wreck thread


hey why didn’t you meet me in the alley last nite we’d skyped out the details, I had the briefcase and the codes bro

 

[howaboutme]

Lol


@howaboutme

we are in a cycle conspiracy you and me

ur right it’s a train wreck thread


hey why didn’t you meet me in the alley last nite we’d skyped out the details, I had the briefcase and the codes bro

Ha! I was going to ignore this.... This is why I don't post much because most posts end up in a p*ssing contest. R2R has way too many "experts". Having 5000+ posts don't make you knowledgeable.

Yes, a pinch every few days is all you need. I am not a tester, even during cycling but I wouldn't recommend a newbie do that. I tested a few times to make sure there weren't any anomalies. I never got a NH3 spike, it just doesn't exist. NO3 never got higher than 5 (or was it 10?), can't remember as I barely tested that too. The water smelled a bit ammoniay but that's normal. Sometimes its not 30 days, maybe it's 28...or 32? I started w/ all dead rock, no bottle this/that and no uglies or dinos. I also put anemone and corals from the very beginning and only have a skimmer and do water changes. (I also still use a Reef Angel controller....) 1000 ways to do this but only a few won't give you large hiccups. Listen to advise wisely. Take the advice and then research that advice. Don't go from forum to tank. That's my advice to anyone.

 

[vetteguy53081]

hey guys..... So i just tested the tank for ammonia and its at 0.5 ppm. Does that mean the cycle has started???

Go simple since you cant get your hands on Bacteria.
Starting with test kits, what test kits are you using ? If API, you will get conflicting numbers throwing you off course.
Cycling is a 2-4 week process adding ZERO livestock as there will be daily chemical changes and swings occuring that will simply kill livestock.
What is cycling supposed to be ??
Decades ago, hobbyists would cycle their new tank with a sacrificial fish, like a blue damsel. While this method may still be used by some, it's not a good plan for two reasons: 1) as the ammonia rises in the water, the fish's gills are burned by the rising ammonia levels which is unkind, and 2) most people don't want the damsel in their aquarium later because it's deemed too aggressive to other livestock.
Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall.
Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.

How long does the cycle generally last?
Using the test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process takes 21 days. There are several ways to cycle a tank, but the easiest one is to run up to the supermarket, go to the seafood counter and ask for one large shrimp. If they sell it with the head, even better. One shrimp will cost about $1. Don't worry if they think you're crazy to buy only one; this is not the first time someone will wonder about your motivations with this hobby.
We're all crazy the day we considered getting into the saltwater hobby !!

Leave the shrimp in the tank for 72 hours. That's it. It may even visibly rot, or form some type of mucous. That's what needs to happen. As the shrimp rots, ammonia is released into the water, and bacteria is growing exponentially, spreading into the substrate. The water may even look a little cloudy, which is totally normal and nothing to be concerned about. After 3 days, remove the shrimp and throw it away. It is no longer needed. Test for ammonia and see what it measures. It should read at the very least 1ppm, or higher.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters.
No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.
Also - If you are running the system with a sump that has a refugium or Algae Turf Scrubber section, don't add any light or plants because the system is too clean.

 

[Spieg]

I'd try to find a store or fellow reefer and ask if you can put a piece of filter foam in their tank. It will pickup some bacteria to help cycle faster.

 

[imagine]

alright, what ive learnt about cycling is that theres 2 ways to do it:
1. Fish in method : Where the fish goes in (clowns) and bottled bacteria right after
2. Ghost feed with live rock and live sand as they have the microfauna (nitrite into nitrate bacteria and ammonia to nitrite bacteria + a bunch more useful critters like pods)

Now the problem is that i dont have bottled bacteria and ive started off with dry rock and dry sand. How do I initiate my cycle? I was so caught up in everything else that I completely forgot about this. Please help me guys!

tx in advance!

Define use refrigerated bottle of fritz tuebo starter purple bottle and let your tany run for 5 days after your last dose of fritz. No fish yet. It’s cruel to them. Then turn back on your protein skimmer and let the tank do it’s Thing. Leave lights off Full time. Other wise your going to deal with a lot of nussian algae that’s not necessary. I recommend a 2-3 dose of fritz make sure it’s stored before purchase refrigerated, refrigerated when you buy it, refrigerated why are you keep it, and do 2 to 3 bottles depending on what size of a tank you have and test your water parameters for five days straight for the first sad to watch your nitrogen cycle. Space start watching BRS TV investigates on YouTube and also Google the nitrogen cycle and study top to bottom back and forwards keep a log of all of your testing and you need to test for phosphate also no matter what anyone says then at that time some people say Adam one anemone like a softy or something that is easy to keep and if it makes it out in two clown fish and then it’s gonna go through the dirty stage which is a breakout of algae usually the coral is going to need lights but the fish don’t need lights so I prefer to add to clowns may be a cleaner shrimp or two depending on the size of a tank and keep my tank lights off and I’m sorry but after four months of this because the bacteria lives on the rocks not in the water column after the initial cycle your ammonia will climb near the end then MUST be ZERO before any fish added to tank Or livestock of any kind because it’s TOXIC. but the beneficial bacteria will help keep down, Initally your nitrite will climb then MUST be ZERO before any fish added to tank. your nitrate will climb and goal is to keep It under under 20 ppm or less depending on what type of aquarium your going to keep. your phosphorus will extremely climb then MUST be ZERO before any fish added to tank.try not to rush this process. After all this gives you time to decide what kind of girl she want whether you want a all LPS tank, and all SAfter all this gives you time to decide what kind of curls you want whether you want a all LPS tank, and all SPS tank, an all softie or a fish only tank or a mixed reef tank. And of course you can add fish types depending on the corals type system you choose that are safe for your new amazing reef aquarium. !!!! Also research on Red Sea and bra tv investigates tv on you tube other tank parameters you need to test for. Once your initial cycle is done congrats and then change 25% of tank waters volume. After you see these parameters especially using dry walk this is why the process takes so long to cycle a new tank because dry rock releases and leeches out into your water column ; Google it phosphorus and a numerous other undesirable things into your tank that your protein skimmer will help remove also watch BRS TV investigates on how to set your skimmer keep an eye on your water level keep it consistent with an auto top off unit based on the size of your aquarium keep your salinity I recommend 35 ppm or 1.026 that’s just what I work out and what works best for me it depends on what kind of curls you choose or officially system I would recommend going to Red Sea reefs website and I’m not trying to promote any products here or sell you anything let me know but Red Sea reef has a good reading and also aqua forest does too and you can Google a dealer in your area that carries both of these items and systems and Red Sea makes a vast amount of testing kits that are incredible reliable and Aqua Forest makes an incredible amount of the best quality in my opinion salt additives and also will test your water your Aro DI water which is a must reverse osmosis deionized water sorry the auto talk messed it up and also will test your salt water to tell you what additives you need to add and then tells you exactly what aqua forest additives to buy I’d recommend unless you have a lot of money available and Neptune system Apex and a Neptune system with any available options that you can afford definitely a leak detector and a solenoid valve stop valve that will prevent a leak in case your auto top off if you run your reverse osmosis deionized water unit directly to your auto top off unit or to your tank you are at a big risk of flooding your area if you’re just at the point of starting out and you’re buying your salt water from your local fish store and your reverse osmosis deionized water which is a must do not let them talk you out of no deionization necessary. If I’ve overwhelmed you I’m sorry but here’s some reference guidelines for you and I have many very successful saltwater tanks 2 of 3 all started off with dry rock. Feel free to ask any questions

 

[imagine]

Go simple since you cant get your hands on Bacteria.
Starting with test kits, what test kits are you using ? If API, you will get conflicting numbers throwing you off course.
Cycling is a 2-4 week process adding ZERO livestock as there will be daily chemical changes and swings occuring that will simply kill livestock.
What is cycling supposed to be ??
Decades ago, hobbyists would cycle their new tank with a sacrificial fish, like a blue damsel. While this method may still be used by some, it's not a good plan for two reasons: 1) as the ammonia rises in the water, the fish's gills are burned by the rising ammonia levels which is unkind, and 2) most people don't want the damsel in their aquarium later because it's deemed too aggressive to other livestock.
Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall.
Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.

How long does the cycle generally last?
Using the test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process takes 21 days. There are several ways to cycle a tank, but the easiest one is to run up to the supermarket, go to the seafood counter and ask for one large shrimp. If they sell it with the head, even better. One shrimp will cost about $1. Don't worry if they think you're crazy to buy only one; this is not the first time someone will wonder about your motivations with this hobby.
We're all crazy the day we considered getting into the saltwater hobby !!

Leave the shrimp in the tank for 72 hours. That's it. It may even visibly rot, or form some type of mucous. That's what needs to happen. As the shrimp rots, ammonia is released into the water, and bacteria is growing exponentially, spreading into the substrate. The water may even look a little cloudy, which is totally normal and nothing to be concerned about. After 3 days, remove the shrimp and throw it away. It is no longer needed. Test for ammonia and see what it measures. It should read at the very least 1ppm, or higher.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters.
No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.
Also - If you are running the system with a sump that has a refugium or Algae Turf Scrubber section, don't add any light or plants because the system is too clean.

Res sea test and no’s test are great also. Buy fritz turbo start, make sure it’s refrigerated before during and at your house. I’ve also seen seed which isn’t refrigerated at pet stores lately but I’m not sure how well it works because I’ve bought a bottle but haven’t used it and the fact that it’s not refrigerator kind of bothers me because to me beneficial bacteria should be refrigerated and since most of your and almost all of your beneficial bacteria lives on the surfaces of your rock and your substrate then to me having some thing like SEED. Y I believe it’s by Seachem.