Hydrogen peroxide ORP and ich

[juanmanuelsanchez]

Hi all! So... I got ich in my tank. And as many its difficult to take out all the fish. So I'm trying hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate the water and kill the ich while in free stage.

The system is 132 gallons and I have been dosing 100 ml at 9:30 pm and 5 am (lights out and before day light comes)

Everytime I dose my ORP goes to the ground. And it takes hours before getting back at it (the max level was 365). I want to bring it to around 420 to see if I can kill the parasite.

So. Why is this happening? There is no negative reaction so far. Corals are fine and the fishes that are less infected seem to be having a normal day.

I have been doing this for 3 days now. But with a much lower dose.

Here are the pics for reference. I read the orp article by Holmes but I couldn't figure it out all out.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Lasse]

IMO - the ORP is going down because the first effect of adding H2O2 into seawater is a fast breakdown from H2O2 to H2O and free O atoms and/or other oxidizing radicals. This process is a real reducing process and your ORP value goes down. In next step the free O atom and/or other radicals will oxidize whatever it hit, and this is an oxidizing process – the ORP will rise. But be careful, the magic happens when the free radicals hit organic matters or form O2. The resulting ORP is not what will kill your parasites – it is the path into this ORP that´s active in killing whatever it hit that not have any defence against active radicals (most higher animals and photosynthetic organism have a rather good protection against active radicals IMO)


Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

also, wont help ich seek the cures documented in large ich work threads

 

[Lasse]

also, wont help ich seek the cures documented in large ich work threads

Are you sure - I have by myself stoped ich with help of ozone, There is a lot of reports stopping ich with help of oxidators (use peroxide) - have you ever try by yourself?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

double post

 

[brandon429]

Link the work for us to see, to check for patterns, to see it applied

if peroxide does work for ich, that's fantastic and in some concentrations Id not be surprised.

but dumped into the organic sink that is a reef, nearly instantly downgraded in strength not even counting dilution... if it works as a pattern that's amazing we can't hardly get it to beat simple algae in normal dilutions...

 

[juanmanuelsanchez]

I know the proven cures for ich. Sadly to take out all the fishes and treat them its a difficult. That's why in using this alternative. If it works great if not I will have to tare down the tank and take everybody out.

Also. If I overdose which would be the risk? Or what are the consecuences?

Thanks for the help

 

[Brew12]

I can't find my scientific study showing treatment of cryptocaryon irritans using H2O2 but it "can" be effective and there is a lot of modern research being done. Here is a study showing it can also be effective for marine velvet.

 

[Brew12]

Should have looked a bit longer. Here is a study showing that even 10ppm H2O2 can achieve an over 80% mortality rate for cryptocaryon Theronts.
https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2011/94/d094p167.pdf

Keeps in mind also that there are multiple schools of thought on treating for ich. I see pro's and con's to both. First is complete eradication which would be difficult to achieve in a display tank. The 2nd way is to keep parasite numbers low enough for the fish in the system to develop an immunity and recover from the initial attack. I don't see any reason H2O2 cannot be very effective if that is the end goal.

 

[brandon429]

good link, are there any live works on it, application threads w more than one public tank like TTM/Fallow crew has going

so am thinking the best documented way for the OP to rid ich: redo your fallow period, treat your infected fish in the normal protocol externally going solely off number of pages of works. fallow is not that hard on a running setup, feed doesn't contaminate it provided its normal feed, and catching the fish is the trickiest part but not for all reefs, some have it easy.

 

[Brew12]

good link, are there any live works on it, application threads w more than one public tank like TTM/Fallow crew has going

so am thinking the best documented way for the OP to rid ich: redo your fallow period, treat your infected fish in the normal protocol externally going solely off number of pages of works. fallow is not that hard on a running setup, feed doesn't contaminate it provided its normal feed, and catching the fish is the trickiest part but not for all reefs, some have it easy.

Not that I am aware of. I think most of the work is being done at the scientific level right now. I do think MACNA had a talk on H2O2 treatment this year but it may have been a different conference. I also know Humblefish is doing testing on this and has high hopes it will become his go-to QT treatment. Done properly it can not only take care of Ich and Velvet but also Uronema. I believe there is even anecdotal evidence it will treat Brook, but don't quote me on that.

 

[brandon429]

I would have never ever believed anyone could input bleach into a running reef just a select few years ago, so the door is still open to accept tomont burning-
good for them to find that, if it can be applied in concentrations strong enough to make a measurable dent across home systems (lacking strong controls) then at least peroxide itself isn't really all that harmful to the greater reef, ten thousand dosers show its not harmful to experiment with (the sensitive organisms well known at least with the items we can see and measure currently in reefing, for example no impact to filtration bacteria has been shown even in overdoses within reason)

 

[Lasse]

I know the proven cures for ich. Sadly to take out all the fishes and treat them its a difficult. That's why in using this alternative. If it works great if not I will have to tare down the tank and take everybody out.

Also. If I overdose which would be the risk? Or what are the consecuences?

Thanks for the help

The action of peroxide is as an active radical - (O -2 and OH -1). Burned tops of SPS has been linked to active oxygen radicals formed by photosyntesis but both fish and corals have protection against these radicals. It is probably that way that you will have most forming of active radicals when your ORP rise after the first dip and if you are able to dose during night and early morning (I did my ozon treatment during this time) - you will have two advantages - you dose during time when no natural active radical will be formed and when the Ich larvae are leaving the bottom layer seeking for hosts.

If you wan to do a more stable dosing - look after a device named Söchting Oxydator - there is some threads about this at R2R

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

I would have never ever believed anyone could input bleach into a running reef just a select few years ago, so the door is still open to accept tomont burning-
good for them to find that, if it can be applied in concentrations strong enough to make a measurable dent across home systems (lacking strong controls) then at least peroxide itself isn't really all that harmful to the greater reef, ten thousand dosers show its not harmful to experiment with (the sensitive organisms well known at least with the items we can see and measure currently in reefing, for example no impact to filtration bacteria has been shown even in overdoses within reason)

That will be the final step before main stream acceptance. We know it works in a lab and as a bath. We are almost sure it works in a hospital tank. The big question is if it can be used in high enough concentrations in a reef tank to have the desired results. And the desired results may be different between people. I doubt it can eradicate ich from a reef tank. I do think it may have value for those who run ich management systems to knock back parasite numbers when they see a break out occurring.

 

[SDK]

I also know Humblefish is doing testing on this and has high hopes it will become his go-to QT treatment. Done properly it can not only take care of Ich and Velvet but also Uronema. I believe there is even anecdotal evidence it will treat Brook, but don't quote me on that.

Do you know if he is dosing or using an Oxydator for his tests? I'd been considering buying a second unit to use in my QT tank and am finding this discussion very interesting...

 

[Brew12]

Do you know if he is dosing or using an Oxydator for his tests? I'd been considering buying a second unit to use in my QT tank and am finding this discussion very interesting...

He is dosing so he can accurately track concentrations.

 

[Lasse]

If I would run a QT - oxidators should be in every tank

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SDK]

He is dosing so he can accurately track concentrations.

Thanks, and I can't wait so see this when it comes out. I should be able to convert and use that data since it's fairly simple to track what my Oxydator is dosing. Fine tuning it may prove to be the challenge....

 

[SDK]

If I would run a QT - oxidators should be in every tank

Sincerely Lasse

Agreed, especially if it can supplement or replace some medications. I was originally just thinking the extra O2 would be beneficial to sick or stressed fish...

 

[Brew12]

If I would run a QT - oxidators should be in every tank

Sincerely Lasse

I'll leave oxidator questions to you. I've never even seen one. I have been tempted to order one though.... I've also considered dosing H2O2 via my Profilux.