newfly
Active Member
I assumed the 0-10v port is std. Looks like i'm mistaken. Can i assume that if the pump have a 3.5mm 0-10C port, i can do basic control with Hydros?
Hydros Control 2 , Control 4 and accessories question and answer thread.
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I assumed the 0-10v port is std. Looks like i'm mistaken. Can i assume that if the pump have a 3.5mm 0-10C port, i can do basic control with Hydros?
OP
OP
Does their pump not use the standard stereo jack? If it does, link below to the WE cable. If not, would need to use/make an adapter.
Hydros WaveEngine 0-10V Quad Cable
Some pumps do not lend themselves to direct drive control with the WaveEngine due to cabling or other restrictions, but many of these pumps do offer 0-10V controllability. This 0-10V HYDROS WaveEngine Quad Cable supplies four independent 0-10V outputs to control these pumps. Broad...www.marinedepot.com
I actually had a BrainFart and yea Kessils do. I was thinking of some stupid other cable.
Not sure on the Red Dragon. I was trying to research it and I am having a hard time finding any info. If it does yea the cable above would work.
n2585722
2500 Club Member
This tells me the pin out of the 0-10v input port. Do you happen to know anything about the sense port? I have two relays that I would like to hook their switch contacts to a input on the Control 4. Any chance of doing that on these ports? Should be the same as hooking up a float switch.Harry and I did some work on what resistors are needed for this. It’s not as straight forward as it seems since they have some input protection on the input pin that throws off the resistor calculations. The following has been tested and works with hydros. And it also uses the 5V output already available on the 0-10v input connector.
OP
OP
Looks like the Red dragon does use a standard plug:
n2585722
2500 Club Member
not sure if it makes a difference but that photo has one more sleeve on that plug than the Hydros cable does.Looks like the Red dragon does use a standard plug:
Closeup of Hydros cable below. I got my order in today.
OP
OP
not sure if it makes a difference but that photo has one more sleeve on that plug than the Hydros cable does.
Closeup of Hydros cable below. I got my order in today.
Not sure and I see that. It really does not mention a type or size either. I would think it is just that way in the picture and still would work but no way to be positive. I would bet it is still just 3 contact points and is the same. 0-10v is just positive and ground. I am not sure which segment on the CV plug is positive and negative. I might grab my multimeter and test, I have a set of 0-10v CV cables or see if it is on the internet somewhere.
I found this in another thread here this is for Coralvue adapter.
What is weird to is when I look up red dragon 0-10v it shows a entirely different cable altogether. Might be different between their pumps too..
Found the size plug:
- 10V connection / control by 3.5mm jack plug
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OP
OP
What is this:
Is this required for 0-10v?
That certainly does not match up with above but does match the other cable I am seeing.
And wow expensive.
But then this is for a different pump.
royalexclusiv.com
Is this required for 0-10v?
That certainly does not match up with above but does match the other cable I am seeing.
And wow expensive.
But then this is for a different pump.
10V Controller Red Dragon® 3 Speedy pump RD3 APEX
10V Interface adapter for Red Dragon® 3 Speedy pump with 10V connection for controll Profilux or Apex GHL Neptune systems
royalexclusiv.com
Fishyj
Well-Known Member
Anyone with input?
OP
OP
Well the mighty Jet does not seem to have 0-10v so you would just have on and off with Wifi plug strip.. So with feed mode you could turn the pump off or use a level sensor in the sump if it ran dry to turn off main pump.. Just a few ideas there. No need for a C4 here. The Wave Engine controls some pump directly not the Control 2 or 4. The C4 and C2 just control some smaller pumps like the ATO micro pump. I am not sure if the WE supports your pump.
Add on skimmer what do you mean? You want to control the skimmer on/off for feed mode? or do you want a overflow sensor? Either way you do not need a C4 for that. on/off can be done with a WiFi strip. Sensor hooks up to a sensor port.
Ink bird heater would plug into a WiFi strip and use the controller to shut it off if the tank temp got to warm in case heater failed. Using the C4 or C2 as a back up which is a good idea. Again no need for a C4.
If you use the Hydros ATO for the Hydros Control it uses a drive and a sense port.
Unless you want PH/ORP or want more than two sensors, I see no need for a C4. Remember the temp sensor uses a sense port so that just leaves you one extra and if you use their ATO then you have no sense ports left. So if you wanted a sensor for skimmer over flow you can't or if you want one for low level on you sump there is no way. You will need the C4 or wait for the sense module to come out. Once you answer a few more question above it can make it easier to determine what you want. It really boils down to do you need more than 2 sensors.
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newfly
Active Member
What is this:
Is this required for 0-10v?
That certainly does not match up with above but does match the other cable I am seeing.
And wow expensive.
But then this is for a different pump.
10V Controller Red Dragon® 3 Speedy pump RD3 APEX
10V Interface adapter for Red Dragon® 3 Speedy pump with 10V connection for controll Profilux or Apex GHL Neptune systems
I think its easier to use a different pump. Varios 2 seems to be supported. May be my best bet
Thank you very much for looking into this.
n2585722
2500 Club Member
I got my Control 4 In today. It looks like with the generic recipe you can set a schedule. I have one setup on the Drive 2 output. I have a relay connected to that output. I hooked up the switch contacts of the relay to a unused input on my Archon so I can graph that output. I do not see a way to graph outputs on the Control 4. I will miss that. The Archon graphs all ports, but it uses a USB stick as memory to do that. You can store a lot of graphing on 16gb Memory stick. I will let it run a few days and see what I get. Also I did try a pump on one of the drive ports. It seems to work great. The Control 4 showed 200ma of current and I also had a relay on the port that pulled 79ma when I control it by itself. That puts the current draw at around 120ma per pump. That means I can run two pumps with one drive port for AWC. That leaves the other Drive port for ATO. I hope they come out with a unit with more drive ports to add to the collective. I am finding a lot of uses for them.
Below is the schedule programming I am trying. If it works it should match my current programming.
Very cool. Thanks for the follow up.I got my Control 4 In today. It looks like with the generic recipe you can set a schedule. I have one setup on the Drive 2 output. I have a relay connected to that output. I hooked up the switch contacts of the relay to a unused input on my Archon so I can graph that output. I do not see a way to graph outputs on the Control 4. I will miss that. The Archon graphs all ports, but it uses a USB stick as memory to do that. You can store a lot of graphing on 16gb Memory stick. I will let it run a few days and see what I get. Also I did try a pump on one of the drive ports. It seems to work great. The Control 4 showed 200ma of current and I also had a relay on the port that pulled 79ma when I control it by itself. That puts the current draw at around 120ma per pump. That means I can run two pumps with one drive port for AWC. That leaves the other Drive port for ATO. I hope they come out with a unit with more drive ports to add to the collective. I am finding a lot of uses for them.
Below is the schedule programming I am trying. If it works it should match my current programming.
OP
OP
I got my Control 4 In today. It looks like with the generic recipe you can set a schedule. I have one setup on the Drive 2 output. I have a relay connected to that output. I hooked up the switch contacts of the relay to a unused input on my Archon so I can graph that output. I do not see a way to graph outputs on the Control 4. I will miss that. The Archon graphs all ports, but it uses a USB stick as memory to do that. You can store a lot of graphing on 16gb Memory stick. I will let it run a few days and see what I get. Also I did try a pump on one of the drive ports. It seems to work great. The Control 4 showed 200ma of current and I also had a relay on the port that pulled 79ma when I control it by itself. That puts the current draw at around 120ma per pump. That means I can run two pumps with one drive port for AWC. That leaves the other Drive port for ATO. I hope they come out with a unit with more drive ports to add to the collective. I am finding a lot of uses for them.
Below is the schedule programming I am trying. If it works it should match my current programming.
I believe the exporting graphs is coming.
Fishyj
Well-Known Member
I will be adding a skimmer down the road. I probably will have a sensor for the collection cup, 1 for the ato reservoir. I guess I pry of answered my own question. I will end up getting the c4. Thanks for the help and explaining everything to me.
n2585722
2500 Club Member
That will be great I use the output graphs to test my programming before actually adding a device to the output.
So some information on the Collective. There is a lot here, and I deep dive into some items that you need to understand for bigger systems. Coralvue is working on a comprehensive instruction for all this stuff that will be ready soon, but I wanted to clear up some questions ahead of time.
- IF you want to share input/output control/status between Control 2/4 and Sense modules, you MUST have them hardwired using command bus cables. This is because they use the dedicated CanBus to share and control that info. You can run Hydros devices separately but can't share input/outputs. You can access all devices with 1 account and in the app, just have to tab to each device.
- IF you have more than 1 device in a Collective, it provides redundancy in case of a module failure. By default you will get wifi/connection and programming redundancy. Based on notes below, you can also get power redundancy.
- I'm 90% sure about this, but I believe you can only wire devices in a Collective in a series/straight configuration. I do not believe it supports start topologies. I may be wrong on this, so I'll have to check with Coralvue engineering.
- For Collectives to properly and reliability communicate there MUST be at least 1 Communication Bus terminator installed at either end of your collective. For example if you have the following 3 devices in your collective with normal Command Bus cables (data and power), install the terminator at the end of your chain. Terminators should come with any command bus cables you buy (I've been told).
- If you have multiple devices connected with normal Command Bus cables (Data and Power), you CAN NOT have 2 power supplies connected at the same time. Both will be driving the system and one will likely burn out. If you would like redundancy in power, see the next bullet.
- Powered command bus is limited to 15 ft between devices, so if you have the following scenario where you are going more than 15 ft and using a Data Only Command Bus Cable (Data only, no power), this can also be used in systems where you want to run multiple power supplies to have redundancy as well. Also since the power supply is taking up the last port on both ends, and the system requires at least 1 terminator at the end, you must use a power supply that has an integrated terminator. I'm being told at some point all newer supplies will have this, but older ones might need to be modified. Contact Coralvue Support if you need this terminated power supply (if you don't have an updated version).
- Another option for powering your Hydros devices is using the Wave Engine. Currently Wave Engines can't be in a collective (coming in the future) but it can be connected via the Command Bus for power. So in the case below you have an extra port to put the standard terminator on the wave engine since power is supplied via a dedicated port. Also no need to use a power supply on the left with a terminator since you have at least 1 on either end.
- You can also connect Hydros devices up with Command Bus cables if you just want to share power. You are not required to make a Collective. You can still have any, or all devices run as independent controllers if you wish, you just don't have the abilities to share inputs/outputs and have wifi redundancy.
- As of right now now there is only 1 cable available from Coralvue for Command Bus. They are currently selling a 6ft Command Bus (Data and Power). I've been told a Data Only Command Bus cable is coming. As for custom length cables, you might be able to contact Coralvue Support and have custom lengths made up, but I'm not 100% on that. If you want to DIY your own, you can either buy the cable from Coralvue and cut it and splice in ethernet cable to make it longer. Again contact Coralvue Support and they can tell you what pins must be connected for Data Only cables. You could also splice on female ethernet connectors to a Command Bus cable cut in half and then just use ethernet cables for any length Data Bus only cable you'd like. There are alot of DIY options here. Coralvue has told me they will be releasing more lengths/types in the future.
- As for multiple Wave Engines on the same Hydros command bus, I am unsure you can connect 2 together with a standard Command Bus cable (data + power). I am looking into this now, but for now I would assume you'd have to use a data only cable.
So you may ask why do I know so much about this? Well I am currently installing the following Hydros setup on a bunch of my setups. It's going to be nuts =)
- IF you want to share input/output control/status between Control 2/4 and Sense modules, you MUST have them hardwired using command bus cables. This is because they use the dedicated CanBus to share and control that info. You can run Hydros devices separately but can't share input/outputs. You can access all devices with 1 account and in the app, just have to tab to each device.
- IF you have more than 1 device in a Collective, it provides redundancy in case of a module failure. By default you will get wifi/connection and programming redundancy. Based on notes below, you can also get power redundancy.
- I'm 90% sure about this, but I believe you can only wire devices in a Collective in a series/straight configuration. I do not believe it supports start topologies. I may be wrong on this, so I'll have to check with Coralvue engineering.
- For Collectives to properly and reliability communicate there MUST be at least 1 Communication Bus terminator installed at either end of your collective. For example if you have the following 3 devices in your collective with normal Command Bus cables (data and power), install the terminator at the end of your chain. Terminators should come with any command bus cables you buy (I've been told).
- If you have multiple devices connected with normal Command Bus cables (Data and Power), you CAN NOT have 2 power supplies connected at the same time. Both will be driving the system and one will likely burn out. If you would like redundancy in power, see the next bullet.
- Powered command bus is limited to 15 ft between devices, so if you have the following scenario where you are going more than 15 ft and using a Data Only Command Bus Cable (Data only, no power), this can also be used in systems where you want to run multiple power supplies to have redundancy as well. Also since the power supply is taking up the last port on both ends, and the system requires at least 1 terminator at the end, you must use a power supply that has an integrated terminator. I'm being told at some point all newer supplies will have this, but older ones might need to be modified. Contact Coralvue Support if you need this terminated power supply (if you don't have an updated version).
- Another option for powering your Hydros devices is using the Wave Engine. Currently Wave Engines can't be in a collective (coming in the future) but it can be connected via the Command Bus for power. So in the case below you have an extra port to put the standard terminator on the wave engine since power is supplied via a dedicated port. Also no need to use a power supply on the left with a terminator since you have at least 1 on either end.
- You can also connect Hydros devices up with Command Bus cables if you just want to share power. You are not required to make a Collective. You can still have any, or all devices run as independent controllers if you wish, you just don't have the abilities to share inputs/outputs and have wifi redundancy.
- As of right now now there is only 1 cable available from Coralvue for Command Bus. They are currently selling a 6ft Command Bus (Data and Power). I've been told a Data Only Command Bus cable is coming. As for custom length cables, you might be able to contact Coralvue Support and have custom lengths made up, but I'm not 100% on that. If you want to DIY your own, you can either buy the cable from Coralvue and cut it and splice in ethernet cable to make it longer. Again contact Coralvue Support and they can tell you what pins must be connected for Data Only cables. You could also splice on female ethernet connectors to a Command Bus cable cut in half and then just use ethernet cables for any length Data Bus only cable you'd like. There are alot of DIY options here. Coralvue has told me they will be releasing more lengths/types in the future.
- As for multiple Wave Engines on the same Hydros command bus, I am unsure you can connect 2 together with a standard Command Bus cable (data + power). I am looking into this now, but for now I would assume you'd have to use a data only cable.
So you may ask why do I know so much about this? Well I am currently installing the following Hydros setup on a bunch of my setups. It's going to be nuts =)
So the EASIEST way to use a sense port for a switch input is to use this adapter:
HYDROS 3.5mm Sensor Adapter Cable
CoralVue HYDROS 3.5mm Adapter Cable The HYDROS 3.5mm Adapter cable.
www.coralvue.com
Below is the pinout of that adapter above, you can just get a stereo 3.5mm cable and adapt that to any switch you'd like. Just use the TIP and SLEEVE for switch connections and leave the RING unconnected. The above adapter is used for the rope sensor as well. So in theory you could add a switch to the end of your rope detector in the same manner I believe.
Use any of these to make an easy switch interface to 3.5mm plugs:
For anyone who is looking to control 120V devices DIRECTLY from a control 2/4, the following product is a possible option for you. This relay box has a 3-48VDC Control Input (green port on side) which can be driven from a Hydros Drive Port or a 0-10V Output Port. One outlet is normally on, 2 outlets are normally off, and one is always on. Good up to 12A if you use 16 gauge cords. Just another option. I plan on using these for heater control myself.
OP
OP
- As for multiple Wave Engines on the same Hydros command bus, I am unsure you can connect 2 together with a standard Command Bus cable (data + power). I am looking into this now, but for now I would assume you'd have to use a data only cable.
I am guessing that is right (data only) because they both need power supplies since they can drive larger pumps.
Power through there would be a issue. I actually never thought about that.
I have two WE.
On powers a C2 and another powers a C4.. Between them is data only.
By the way great right up and that is what is needed. Very easy to understand.
Yeah I wasn't sure if they put reverse current protection between the command bus ports and the dedicated power port or not. With the standard command bus connectors that concept isn't possible since both are the same, but they could've added that protection. Waiting on a response from Coralvue to confirm.
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