Hydros Maven

Each of those systems has inherent issues as well.

1 - human error
2 - small sample volume amplifies error
3 - reagent qaulity control

Completely agree. I saw this when I was running daily manual tests while testing the NP. Hanna's nitrate was probably the worst offender of the lot. I would see swings that made no sense. Started to track results to cuvettes and caps used and got consistent results after. Also battery seemed to make a difference. In once case a reagent issue happened and Hanna replaced without issue even though they are not expired.

I am building (no idea why) a precision phosphate tester.

Some like Sudoku, some tinker :)
 
Completely agree. I saw this when I was running daily manual tests while testing the NP. Hanna's nitrate was probably the worst offender of the lot. I would see swings that made no sense. Started to track results to cuvettes and caps used and got consistent results after. Also battery seemed to make a difference. In once case a reagent issue happened and Hanna replaced without issue even though they are not expired.



Some like Sudoku, some tinker :)
Those Hanna Checker

1 - Cuvettes are low quality.
2 - They act as lenses.
That means a lot of refraction of the light beam

3 - The housing lids are not opaque. Light can leak in. Run the same sample in a dark room and in very bright room.

4 - Fill line is not an accurate way to measure... large error margin. Matters on some tests, not on others.

5 - any liquid reagent for Hanna goes bad VERY quickly.

6 - I assume the colorimeter circuit and sensor are nothing spectacular, but could be wrong.

So best to mark the cuvettes with an index line and always wipe clean and insert to index. Use the same cuvette for same test, always.
 
yea but me and colorimeter tests are natural enemies lol. i can never tell. im pretty sure i have a bit of color blindness too like my dad lol
Color cards are hard to read and highly dependent on ambient ligjht, printing, etc.

The idea with the automation is that a sensor reads the color. The issue (as many are finding out) is that with all of the variables listed above, most of these machines are often not much better than the human eye due to the number of compromises in their design.
 
My suspicion, bases solely on conjecture:

Hydros saw that the Trident NP was coming out and they didn't have their own solution. To get some time, they created a mock-up of what their own tester would look like and had a spitball session about what they hoped to do. Then they announced the spitball results, implying that they had a working system when all they really had were some ideas.

I suspect that they never actually planned to release in Q4 of 2024, but wanted to put that target out there for people who may have been on the fence about which system to go with, and to keep their own customers from jumping ship.

As for what's taking so long, take a look at the Alkatronic and the Hydros IV alkalinity test system. They're the same thing. They even use the same reagent.
Now look at the claims on the Hydros Maven. Those claims are quite similar to what the Trident ACM and NP do. In fact, there's only so many ways to test these things, and so why not set up a system that uses reagents that are already on the market? There are a couple of companies that make knock-off Trident reagents.

My suspicion is that Hydros planned to ape the Trident once it was released, only to find that it was either too hard to copy or was protected by patents they couldn't get around.
 
I’m sure using Amazon project boxes for the shells has also been an issue to overcome since it would completely limit their design and engineering to fit someone else’s shell.

Total guess though and maybe they are actually custom making parts now. The rest of Hydros is just a project box with a sticker slapped on it
 
Oh.... my.... god....

1769524019301.png
Is anyone else a tiny bit skeptical?
 
I’m sure using Amazon project boxes for the shells has also been an issue to overcome since it would completely limit their design and engineering to fit someone else’s shell.

Total guess though and maybe they are actually custom making parts now. The rest of Hydros is just a project box with a sticker slapped on it
I really like the project box look. I feel like a mad scientist running them on my tanks. I don't like the way apex looks. I know, I know, it's about function not looks. I am very shallow.
 
Duck Plane GIF

Howard Hughes has filled his plane with them and is now delivering them to all the good reefer girls and boys out there.
 
My suspicion, bases solely on conjecture:

Hydros saw that the Trident NP was coming out and they didn't have their own solution. To get some time, they created a mock-up of what their own tester would look like and had a spitball session about what they hoped to do. Then they announced the spitball results, implying that they had a working system when all they really had were some ideas.

I suspect that they never actually planned to release in Q4 of 2024, but wanted to put that target out there for people who may have been on the fence about which system to go with, and to keep their own customers from jumping ship.

As for what's taking so long, take a look at the Alkatronic and the Hydros IV alkalinity test system. They're the same thing. They even use the same reagent.
Now look at the claims on the Hydros Maven. Those claims are quite similar to what the Trident ACM and NP do. In fact, there's only so many ways to test these things, and so why not set up a system that uses reagents that are already on the market? There are a couple of companies that make knock-off Trident reagents.

My suspicion is that Hydros planned to ape the Trident once it was released, only to find that it was either too hard to copy or was protected by patents they couldn't get around.

For each test, there really is only one viable wet chemistry where the reagents have a chance of any shelf life. They are known reactions that any average person can go look up. There is nothing novel about the reactions or wavelengths.

The variables are
- measuring (stepper or syringe pump) accuracy
- Colorimetric accuracy. What ADC, what Photodiode or sensor.
- Cuvette quality (optical clarity)
- The basic mechanical quality of all of the above
- The ability to rinse and repeat with more than one chemical workflow.
- COST FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE.

There is a reason that a lab grade colorimeters cost thousands and cuvettes many hundreds to thousands.
To make these devices salable to a hobby they have cost lest than $1500 to $2000 max. But that price, how many will they sell? R&D costs, and per unit margin makes it not worth the hassle unless tremendous corners are cut. That means poor accuracy and precision, and unhappy people for the price.

Yes - I would bet the farm on CV playing the "first to market" game with no viable product in hand, or even a working model. Some people say they know people with "beta" units out there. At this point I doubt that. Something would have leaked. We are 9m or more from the puff piece update that CV put out saying it was almost ready but they had new features and tweaks. I think that is likely BS. If not, then the holdup is cost of the prototypes not being anywhere close to target per unit cost to make this worthwhile.

All guesses, it could ship tomorrow, but I bet it wont, if ever.

I really like the project box look. I feel like a mad scientist running them on my tanks. I don't like the way apex looks. I know, I know, it's about function not looks. I am very shallow.

I think they are terrible. The form factor is not uniform, wires and tubes going every which direction. To me it is emblematic of the entire offering -- seat of the pants decisions at every turn. Random product names, random case sizes, random wire directions, random feature sets, random marketing (non uniform) at every turn.

From where I sit, these folks are a goods distributor trying to be a technology company. In the end they may sort it out, but hydros certainly has the appearance of being run by a committee of grade school kids being sustained on candy bars and caffeine.
 
1771011041791.png


Guess what this board, stuffed, the receiver board stuffed, the 5 dosing pumps, power supply, casework, quality cuvette, tubing, etc. cost?
 
For each test, there really is only one viable wet chemistry where the reagents have a chance of any shelf life. They are known reactions that any average person can go look up. There is nothing novel about the reactions or wavelengths.

The variables are
- measuring (stepper or syringe pump) accuracy
- Colorimetric accuracy. What ADC, what Photodiode or sensor.
- Cuvette quality (optical clarity)
- The basic mechanical quality of all of the above
- The ability to rinse and repeat with more than one chemical workflow.
- COST FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE.

There is a reason that a lab grade colorimeters cost thousands and cuvettes many hundreds to thousands.
To make these devices salable to a hobby they have cost lest than $1500 to $2000 max. But that price, how many will they sell? R&D costs, and per unit margin makes it not worth the hassle unless tremendous corners are cut. That means poor accuracy and precision, and unhappy people for the price.

Yes - I would bet the farm on CV playing the "first to market" game with no viable product in hand, or even a working model. Some people say they know people with "beta" units out there. At this point I doubt that. Something would have leaked. We are 9m or more from the puff piece update that CV put out saying it was almost ready but they had new features and tweaks. I think that is likely BS. If not, then the holdup is cost of the prototypes not being anywhere close to target per unit cost to make this worthwhile.

All guesses, it could ship tomorrow, but I bet it wont, if ever.



I think they are terrible. The form factor is not uniform, wires and tubes going every which direction. To me it is emblematic of the entire offering -- seat of the pants decisions at every turn. Random product names, random case sizes, random wire directions, random feature sets, random marketing (non uniform) at every turn.

From where I sit, these folks are a goods distributor trying to be a technology company. In the end they may sort it out, but hydros certainly has the appearance of being run by a committee of grade school kids being sustained on candy bars and caffeine.
I just got my first ICP test results back. My initial reaction was I'm never gonna use home tests again. Yes, ICP is expensive but so much easier, so much more accurate, so much more comprehensive. You get what you pay for in this case.

I know I will use home tests again but I plan to use ICP at least monthly.
 
I know I see them on websites now, coming soon.... I had a chat with someone at CoralVue, and they know people are chomping at the bit to get their hands on them.

They are putting a priority on longevity and reliability, which is probably a good thing considering its probably going to be quite expensive.
 
I just got my first ICP test results back. My initial reaction was I'm never gonna use home tests again. Yes, ICP is expensive but so much easier, so much more accurate, so much more comprehensive. You get what you pay for in this case.

I know I will use home tests again but I plan to use ICP at least monthly.

I see very little use for ICP unless something is terribly wrong that water changes and regular maintenance can't fix. The vast majority of what is tested for is not known to be biological process related, the "target" values are questionable, the elemental forms tested for, vs what is dosed is questionable, etc,.

For values like Phosphate, Magnesium and Calcium it is cost prohibitive, time delayed for values that will change within hours, let alone a week or two, and generally just not needed or useful.

Home tests are fine for the accuracy that we need.

So why am I building a precision phosphate tester? I dunno, for the heck of it I guess. Just to see if I can get repeatable numbers. The funny part, I don't test for phosphate anyway.
 
They are putting a priority on longevity and reliability, which is probably a good thing considering its probably going to be quite expensive.
Sounds like marketing to me 🙃
 
I really like the project box look. I feel like a mad scientist running them on my tanks. I don't like the way apex looks. I know, I know, it's about function not looks. I am very shallow.

I don’t say it as a dig but more so as a potential issue and explanation of what MAY be happening

I think bottom or back mounting wires and cables is 100x better than face mounting them. When I had a full suite of Hydros items a few years back I had planned to panel mount them “backwards” but I wouldn’t be able to see the lights if needed and I would have to print stickers to make the face “pretty”. The tabs on the side make them extremely easy to mount.

I currently only have the Hydros XS on my small tank. It monitors temperature and that’s it. It controls nothing. But it allows me to see temperature remotely and lets me know the heater may have failed.
 
I don’t say it as a dig but more so as a potential issue and explanation of what MAY be happening

I think bottom or back mounting wires and cables is 100x better than face mounting them. When I had a full suite of Hydros items a few years back I had planned to panel mount them “backwards” but I wouldn’t be able to see the lights if needed and I would have to print stickers to make the face “pretty”. The tabs on the side make them extremely easy to mount.

I currently only have the Hydros XS on my small tank. It monitors temperature and that’s it. It controls nothing. But it allows me to see temperature remotely and lets me know the heater may have failed.

To me the issue is the connections flying off in all directions with no convention. There is just no way around a rat's nest.

Dig on my part or not, as I said above, to me it feels like these products are designed by "oh that would look cool and be cheap" reasoning vs putting actual thought into real world use case. The whole ecosystem has that feel from my perspective. Just observing, I don't care one way or the other, I am not a customer.
 

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