I am 100% against Marine Depot's new financing options

[Daniel@R2R]

@mdbannister I would like a towe


Is it when you get a REEF2REEF towel? I want a towel!!

Somebody give this guy a towel.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

Now back to the thread.

So if your logic about Marine Depot and affirm holds water then shouldn't you be against ALL business that accept Paypal as a form of payment?

When I buy using paypal I am given the option to pay via my paypal account, credit/debit cards, and.....ready for this......Paypal Credit. Better known as Bill Me Later. Only 20% interest.

I would venture to say that you are probably a patron of A LOT of businesses that use Paypal as a payment option for customers.

Via the paypal website...



https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-credit?&act=PayPal+Credit&campaignid=71700000021454029&adgroupid=58700002206043439&adgroup=CRD-TM+-+PayPal+Credit+-+ONLY+(e)&creative=173005587301&kwid=43700018500938768&matchtype=e&network=g&adposition=1t1&target=&device=c&devicemodel=&feeditemid=&loc_physical_ms=9011128&loc_interest_ms=&targetid=aud-205115725928:kwd-561158392&utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CRD-TM+-+PayPal+Credit+-+ONLY&utm_term=paypal+credit&gclid=Cj0KEQjw8tbHBRC6rLS024qYjtEBEiQA7wIDeSKZYGT8QM6hIn81E-M9vS-c6S7S5yeVmVdVVh7nVEkaAh4s8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

I would never advise someone to use PayPal's Bill Me Later service, either. According to ConsumerAffairs.com it has a rating of 1/5 based on 433 reviews.^[1] Additionally, they have a 2.6/5 rating with the Better Business Bureau with 95% negative customer feedback.^[2] Last but not least, and certainly the nail in the coffin, PayPal was ordered to pay back $25,000,000 in damages due to illegal and intentionally deceptive business practices.^[3]

So you are technically correct, I am against all of these "instant credit" services. I specifically picked Marine Depot/Affirm because I received a promotional email related to the reef aquarium hobby.

• [1] https://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/bill_me_later.html
• [2] https://www.bbb.org/greater-marylan...l-credit-bill-me-later-in-timonium-md-8010261
• [3] http://bgr.com/2015/05/20/paypal-credit-scam-25-million/

 

[revhtree]

I would never advise someone to use PayPal's Bill Me Later service, either. According to ConsumerAffairs.com it has a rating of 1/5 based on 433 reviews.^[1] Additionally, they have a 2.6/5 rating with the Better Business Bureau with 95% negative customer feedback.^[2] Last but not least, and certainly the nail in the coffin, PayPal was ordered to pay back $25,000,000 in damages due to illegal and intentionally deceptive business practices.^[3]

So you are technically correct, I am against all of these "instant credit" services. I specifically picked Marine Depot/Affirm because I received a promotional email related to the reef aquarium hobby.

• [1] https://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/bill_me_later.html
• [2] https://www.bbb.org/greater-marylan...l-credit-bill-me-later-in-timonium-md-8010261
• [3] http://bgr.com/2015/05/20/paypal-credit-scam-25-million/

Ok I understand that. But a lot of aquarium related businesses do the same. I would say that if you started a thread about any of them. But to be fair, many do.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I would never advise someone to use PayPal's Bill Me Later service, either. According to ConsumerAffairs.com it has a rating of 1/5 based on 433 reviews.^[1] Additionally, they have a 2.6/5 rating with the Better Business Bureau with 95% negative customer feedback.^[2] Last but not least, and certainly the nail in the coffin, PayPal was ordered to pay back $25,000,000 in damages due to illegal and intentionally deceptive business practices.^[3]

So you are technically correct, I am against all of these "instant credit" services. I specifically picked Marine Depot/Affirm because I received a promotional email related to the reef aquarium hobby.

• [1] https://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/bill_me_later.html
• [2] https://www.bbb.org/greater-marylan...l-credit-bill-me-later-in-timonium-md-8010261
• [3] http://bgr.com/2015/05/20/paypal-credit-scam-25-million/

Instant credit services are extremely common in business. There are TONS of retail stores (Sam's club, Target, ...you name it...) who offer instant credit options. If this is your position, it now seems like it was a bit unfair to single out one vendor out of thousands. Why not just start a general thread on this topic and cite MD as one example among many? I'm also a bit confused about how "instant credit" should automatically be placed in the same category as a payday loan service (based on your previous posts as well as this one).

As Rev pointed out, there are LOTS of online aquarium vendors who use PayPal (and therefore Bill Me Later). So, this isn't even just because it's reef hobby related. To be consistent, you'd literally need to start a thread on practically every aquarium/reef livestock vendor online since practically all of them offer PayPal as a payment solution.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

Ok I understand that. But a lot of aquarium related businesses do the same. I would say that if you started a thread about any of them. But to be fair, many do.

As Rev pointed out, there are LOTS of online aquarium vendors who use PayPal (and therefore Bill Me Later). So, this isn't even just because it's reef hobby related. To be consistent, you'd literally need to start a thread on practically every aquarium/reef livestock vendor online since practically all of them offer PayPal as a payment solution.

BRS doesn't. I don't lump PayPal in as a whole because financing is just one option PayPal offers and BRS doesn't promote it. You can just as easily use a PayPal balance or a linked bank account.

 

[joseserrano]

I don't understand why this is still going on. It is ultimately up to the person. The business is that and will try whatever to maximize its profits, I do not see why we are anthropomorphizing a company as if it has an evil (human quality) agenda. They are offering credit, up to the person if they want to get it. The same way it is up to us to buy all kinds of good from china, which people are really taken advantage of their for our, "benefit". Lets take cell phones into account. If conflict minerals and cheap labor was not used, they would be 1000's of dollars, but we don't want to pay that, so what happens? This is no ones anything, but the individual choosing to or not to use this option.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

BRS doesn't. I don't lump PayPal in as a whole because financing is just one option PayPal offers and BRS doesn't promote it. You can just as easily use a PayPal balance or a linked bank account.

Oh come on now...PayPal credit is offered by anyone who uses PayPal as a payment solution, and BRS does use them. At MD you can just as easily pay with a bank card, PayPal balance, credit card, or any of the other great payment options they have. Now you're just nit-picking.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

I don't understand why this is still going on. It is ultimately up to the person. The business is that and will try whatever to maximize its profits, I do not see why we are anthropomorphizing a company as if it has an evil (human quality) agenda. They are offering credit, up to the person if they want to get it. The same way it is up to us to buy all kinds of good from china, which people are really taken advantage of their for our, "benefit". Lets take cell phones into account. If conflict minerals and cheap labor was not used, they would be 1000's of dollars, but we don't want to pay that, so what happens? This is no ones anything, but the individual choosing to or not to use this option.

lol I hope you watch the documentary The Corporation and educate yourself. Thanks to Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution allows corporations to be recognized as individuals.

 

[revhtree]

I don't agree with your opinion but I do appreciate the dialogue.

 

[joseserrano]

lol I hope you watch the documentary The Corporation and educate yourself. Thanks to Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution allows corporations to be recognized as individuals.

Thank you for the attack of character, and being able to stick to points. I will make sure to watch one documentary and thus be educated.

 

[Fishmantim]

Anything to make a sale

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

Thank you for the attack of character, and being able to stick to points. I will make sure to watch one documentary and thus be educated.

I'm just saying haha. Whether you just to accept it or not, corporations are protected under the constitution just as US citizens are under a special clause referred to as "corporate personhood." So once a person knows that, "anthromorphizing corporations" doesn't sound as silly as you made it seem.

BTW just want to say quick, I appreciate everyone's input and I think there has been a lot of insightful discussion generated and that's what makes this forum awesome. Obviously there is not one single correct answer, and this thread definitely was not intended to tell people what to do with their money. To each their own, and we all certainly have our own ways of doing things.

 

[Maddlesrain]

I don't think this problem pertains solely to younger hobbyists, so I don't believe a blanket statement should be made stating that we're reckless and frivolous with our money. I'm 19, and am extremely well organized and responsible when it comes to making purchases and managing my banking. I would never use a service like this; if I can't pay right then, I'll wait and buy whatever it is I want later. As was mentioned earlier, buying equipment in stages so that the money spent is more spread out over time can be more feasible for many aquarium hobbyists, including college students such as myself. I don't like seeing young hobbyists thrown under the bus, I know a lot of younger reefers who work extremely hard for everything that goes into their aquariums!

 

[FirstContact]

So it seems like no one on this forum wants to pay 20% to 30% more by using Affirm or Bill Me Later. Why should we encourage the practice to those less fortunate or less financially literate than us by saying there's nothing wrong with it?

 

[Elder1945]

So it seems like no one on this forum wants to pay 20% to 30% more by using Affirm or Bill Me Later. Why should we encourage the practice to those less fortunate or less financially literate than us by saying there's nothing wrong with it?

I think this has a lot to do with the freedom of choice. If you declare bankruptcy you will need high interest lones or offers to rebuild your credit as no one will offer you different.

If this is the only option you have to own somthing you want i see no harm.. Is it the best no but who are we to judge people...

I say do what you want and take ownership of you decision. If you only option is a 40% loan for your $250 skimmer you probably have bigger issues in the financial department.

I still see this as a good business move by MD. I wonder what the #'s are like...

 

[FirstContact]

I think this has a lot to do with the freedom of choice. If you declare bankruptcy you will need high interest lones or offers to rebuild your credit as no one will offer you different.

If this is the only option you have to own somthing you want i see no harm.. Is it the best no but who are we to judge people...

I say do what you want and take ownership of you decision. If you only option is a 40% loan for your $250 skimmer you probably have bigger issues in the financial department.

I still see this as a good business move by MD. I wonder what the #'s are like...

I don't think we like to see people hurt themselves even when it comes to freedom of choice, or freedom of choice to make bad decisions. So I would rather encourage someone with limited funds entering the hobby to do research, purchase a little at a time, and consider used equipment rather than recommend they pay 20% - 30% interest over time because it's their freedom of choice to have everything now and ruin themselves financially to the aggrandizement of a corporation for profit that is an individual and has no problems declaring bankruptcy and continuing on in business like nothing happened unlike the rest of us individuals.

Of course it's a good business move if all you are concerned about is how much money you are earning. If you are cognizant of the role you play in society and the world in general then you might think otherwise. Perfect example of why society needs government and regulations and corporations should not be individuals.

 

[Elder1945]

I don't think we like to see people hurt themselves even when it comes to freedom of choice, or freedom of choice to make bad decisions. So I would rather encourage someone with limited funds entering the hobby to do research, purchase a little at a time, and consider used equipment rather than recommend they pay 20% - 30% interest over time because it's their freedom of choice to have everything now and ruin themselves financially to the aggrandizement of a corporation for profit that is an individual and has no problems declaring bankruptcy and continuing on in business like nothing happened unlike the rest of us individuals.

Of course it's a good business move if all you are concerned about is how much money you are earning. If you are cognizant of the role you play in society and the world in general then you might think otherwise. Perfect example of why society needs government and regulations and corporations should not be individuals.

I do respect your opinion but I just have a different look on things i guess...

To me it sounds like you are talking about the illusion of freedom of choice not in fact freedom of choice. You would rather someone tell you its ok or no ok to do something... I on the other hand want freedom and not someone deciding for me what I should and should not do.

If it was not for me taking high interest loans on my paycheck I might have not started the company's I did. Some "government committee would have told me I could not learn from my mistakes i just cant handle it". I mean who decides then what is a bad choice and a good choice..... I made a "bad" choice according to you taking high interest loans over 30% but to me it was the best decisions of my life as now I own and have the assets to buy the pay day loan place I cashed my paycheck out of...

Also we are talking about Marine Depot and not Walmart ... I was brushed off on the assumptions some LFS should make millions.... (I know the owner of a LFS and he does 3.2 million a year is sales....) or drive a $300,000 car.... How much do you think MD does in sales I mean is there a board of directors laughing every time someone clicks buy and then flying on there privet jets to Italy to spend there money there making on the loan they are now offering..... If millions are off the table then how much is ok?

lets talk about the people that work there and the people that started MD. I bet it was quite a risk staring a place like MD I even bet there were quite a few times the owner or people who stated the site question if it could work.. I also will put money on it that it was a long hard road to build the company to where it is now... No one wants to see that part just the results..

Also on the bankruptcy comment I bet if MD would go bankrupt it would be devastating to everyone involved including to owner flying around in his solid gold jet right?

Also when a corporation makes money the size that MD is at they usually use it to expand and higher more people intern give back to society by paying people money and giving them employment.. If we are talking about the "evil" large world owning corporations that is a different story but there are only a hand full of them in the world..

 

[FirstContact]

The world needs corporations. I work for one. I just don't think they should be classified as individuals, have easier bankruptcy laws than the rest of us, or be unregulated. Nothing I wrote has taken away from MDs success. I still don't believe in Affirm or Bill Me Later. I don't believe in 20% or 30% interest rates. It's great we have government regulation or they would be higher. No matter what they drive for automobiles or gold jets as you say, I think the owners of MD are doing just fine financially. In fact I think they are all probably doing extremely well. Good for them. Now for just a few extra dollars of income more, they will partner with Affirm. Well, it's my opinion, and I don't like that because I feel 20% and 30% is predatory even if it is legal.

Don't get me started on Walmart ha ha ha! ;-)

 

[Elder1945]

Again that is a huge assumption on your part.. If i was Marine Depot I would be worried every day that BRS or Amazon would take almost all my traffic away. This would keep me up late as I would also have the jobs people on my shoulders no to mention my own job....

We should make it as hard as we can for business owners to take risks? I just don't follow this logic...

So if a mom and pop store that is trying to make it in the big world of business and should go under with there whole 2 employees who are only there family should have everything taken from them... House, Car and all there money if they make a mistake and have to declare bankruptcy?? I get if we are talking about l Walmart or something but this thinking also affects most business that employee the most people in this world and they are small to medium..

I agree on some of your points 100% on a large scale though. I don't think however "Rob's Auto" should have his house taken away because he had a bad few months...

 

[Elder1945]

@FirstContact
Please don't take anything i say negatively I enjoy a good conversation on this subject!

I am happy people have opinions and will stick up for them instead of just yelling troll every second.