I do weekly water changes to keep nutrients low should I stop?

Will do! And yes I use sodium carbonate once a week for ALK!

Maybe you’re right and I should just do weekly water changes and watch my tank to see if anything goes wrong . Don’t do anything else
KISS.

Keep
It
Simple
Silly

Reef keeping is complex. Lets not over complicate it when we don't need to! Weekly water changes for smaller tanks are often times enough to keep up with coral demands. Especially with tanks that don't have huge colonies. Be sure to keep an eye on ALK. I'd recommend testing every 2-3 days until you're able to find the ALK rhythm of the tank. What you don't want to have happen is you stop dosing ALK but your corals keep up taking it, causing a swing in ALK. If after your weekly water change your ALK isn't within your targeted range, make a corrective dose to be within range. Keep in mind, dosing once a week may also cause a swing in your ALK due to the replenishing of ALK after a week of corals up taking it. If your swing is greater than 1.0 ALK, I would recommend dosing roughly half of your corrective dose half way through the week. Then your second dose with your water change to correct it fully within your targeted ALK range.
 
I’d personally feed more or dose some form of N. Too low of nutrients is a dino risk that’s not worth taking.
 
I’d personally feed more or dose some form of N. Too low of nutrients is a dino risk that’s not worth taking.
But is OP really at risk of too low of nutrients? Phosphate is 0.15ppm. I'd consider that on the higher side of things.
 
Will do! And yes I use sodium carbonate once a week for ALK!

Maybe you’re right and I should just do weekly water changes and watch my tank to see if anything goes wrong . Don’t do anything else
KISS.

Keep
It
Simple
Silly

Reef keeping is complex. Lets not over complicate it when we don't need to! Weekly water changes for smaller tanks are often times enough to keep up with coral demands. Especially with tanks that don't have huge colonies. Be sure to keep an eye on ALK. I'd recommend testing every 2-3 days until you're able to find the ALK rhythm of the tank. What you don't want to have happen is you stop dosing ALK but your corals keep up taking it, causing a swing in ALK. If after your weekly water change your ALK isn't within your targeted range, make a corrective dose to be within range. Keep in mind, dosing once a week may also cause a swing in your ALK due to the replenishing of ALK after a week of corals up taking it. If your swing is greater than 1.0 ALK, I would recommend dosing roughly half of your corrective dose half way through the week. Then your second dose with your water change to correct it fully within your targeted ALK range.
Thank you so much bro you just made it simple for me. Bottom line is my favorite corals look great . All I gotta do is keep doing my normal weekly water changes and monitor ALK and don’t over do anything else. I might find out my alk is perfectly fine in 1 week lol
 
For a beginner reefer yes. Please remember when advice is given it shouldn’t just be regurgitated social thoughts. When you stop to consider each generalization is dependent on a long list of variable factors within reef keeping, how can we just blanket statement and generalize advice for new reeders? More experienced reef keeps know and understand that each piece of advice comes with its own nuances and can determine if it’s advice that fits and supports our goals or not. It’s incredibly difficult for new reefers to do this. The advice we give should be tailored to each situation and each persons needs and knowledge base.

My opinion on nutrient levels are this. If there is phosphate in the tank then there has to be nitrates. This is a part of the nitrogen cycle, you can’t have one without the other unless all your bacteria died off. Phosphates are the end of the bacterial process portion of the cycle and tend to build up the most. Elevated phosphate levels also have the most risk when compared to nitrates. Phosphates are a poison to corals and directly inhibit their metabolic processes. You’ll see beautiful long term successful tanks with 30-40ppm nitrates and you’ll see others with 0ppm nitrates. What you won’t see, is beautiful long term successful with tank that have 0.2ppm phosphates and above. So I think you can say arguably there are more points that lead you to believe phosphate levels are more important than nitrate levels.

That’s not the advice I’m debating. The advice was to raise Nitrates while they are already above 0. I’m simply saying reefing is complicated enough for new reefers, let’s simplify it, keep things factual and address only the issues at hand and not create issues that don’t exist at this point.

But that’s my point, a new reefer is only going to be confused and misguided by non factual and opinion based advice. They don’t have the experience needed to take advice and pick it apart to see if it works for their situation and goals. I didn’t say a higher nitrate level would be harmful, I said it’s not something we need to put into this newer reefers head as there’s not reason to raise or lower their nitrate levels. Right now, their focus should be to successfully maintain what they perceive as a successful tank. Not to experiment with things to get slightly better growth or color when just to maintain a reef tank to their perception of a successful status is a difficult enough task.

As far as proof, there is no scientific proof nitrate levels do anything for coral growth rate and coloration. Anecdotal, yeah you could make some arguments, but factual none that I’m aware of or seen. If there is, please share, I’m always wanting to learn more about this. I will gladly eat my words at a chance to learn, I don’t know everything after all.

Factually, nitrates are part of the nitrogen cycle. If phosphate is continually rising then nitrates have to be present. Even packed full of coral, a 40 gallon tank only has so much biological uptake capacity, So I have zero fear OP will bottom out their nitrates. Also factually, nitrate and phosphate are up taken at an exact ratio (16:1 N:P) referred to as the Redfield ratio. If you look at OP's levels you can start to see that if the tank hypothetically used all the nitrates, there would still be a lot of phosphate left over. In this case, that would indicate that phosphates are not being created or exported at an equal rate to nitrogen and thus we have an excess of phosphates. Since, nitrates come before phosphates in the nitrogen cycle, if we begin to raise them, it would also mean that phosphates will raise too. This will create a larger issue long term than just leaving nitrates where they are. Reducing nitrates will also systematically reduce phosphates, but that isn't something we want either, as you pointed out, bottoming out nitrates can become a concern. Logically, if you shouldn't recommend raising or lowering nitrates, I would recommend leaving them alone and shift your focus to something else that would be more likely an issue.
“Factually, nitrates are part of the nitrogen cycle. If phosphate is continually rising then nitrates have to be present. Even packed full of coral, a 40 gallon tank only has so much biological uptake capacity, So I have zero fear OP will bottom out their nitrates. Also factually, nitrate and phosphate are up taken at an exact ratio (16:1 N:P) referred to as the Redfield ratio.”

The Redfield Ratio applies to micro algae only: not coral or macro algae.

“If phosphate is continually rising, then nitrates must be present”

@Kodski
Explain how this is so. The logic escapes me. See if this makes sense to you.

In the context of aquarium management and water chemistry, the statement that if
"phosphate is continually rising, then nitrates must be present" (or will be shortly) is generally true, as both are byproducts of the same nutrient sources—primarily fish waste and uneaten food. Neither food nor fish waste is a fixed ratio of N:P.

However, in many aquariums, high phosphate levels can coexist with low or undetectable nitrate levels. Here is the breakdown of why this happens and the relationship between the two:

Why Phosphate Rises While Nitrates Seem Absent
  1. Imbalanced Consumption/Export: Phosphates are often taken up much slower by beneficial bacteria and corals than nitrates.
  2. Rock Leaching: If you previously had high nitrates and phosphates, the phosphate may have absorbed into the rockwork. Even after fixing the nitrate issue, that rock will "leach" phosphate back into the water for a long time.
  3. Biological Consumption: In some tanks, algae or bacteria may consume nitrates faster than phosphates, leading to a "0 nitrate, high phosphate" scenario.
  4. Carbon Dosing: If you are using carbon dosing (a common way to reduce nutrients), it is very common for the tank to run out of nitrates first, causing phosphates to accumulate because the bacteria need both to grow.
 
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But is OP really at risk of too low of nutrients? Phosphate is 0.15ppm. I'd consider that on the higher side of things.

He already is too low, IMO. My lower nitrate limit target is 5 ppm. He is below 1 ppm.
 
“Factually, nitrates are part of the nitrogen cycle. If phosphate is continually rising then nitrates have to be present. Even packed full of coral, a 40 gallon tank only has so much biological uptake capacity, So I have zero fear OP will bottom out their nitrates. Also factually, nitrate and phosphate are up taken at an exact ratio (16:1 N:P) referred to as the Redfield ratio.”

The Redfield Ratio applies to micro algae only: not coral or macro algae.

“If phosphate is continually rising, then nitrates must be present”

@Kodski
Explain how this is so. The logic escapes me.

I could be incorrect as I know of the Redfield ratio but have not researched it to a great degree. I thought the Redfield Ratio applies to the photosynthetic cells found within algae? Similar cellular structure found within photosynthetic corals, where its thought that corals would likely follow a similar ratio? The reason I thought as to why it gets brought up in conversation about nitrates and phosphates in a reef tank. I also thought that while the research on the Redfield ratio is based on micro algae, it also hasn't been proven that it doesn't apply to corals or macro algae. If you are more familiar with the subject, I'd love to learn more. Either way, my point wasn't necessarily about the ratio itself, it was about the large difference between nitrogen and phosphate.

Phosphate and nitrate both are produced from the decomposition of organic waste. OP isn't just adding straight phosphate to the tank. Therefore a logical conclusion, if one is present, the other also must be present. Clearly just being used at different rates. This is the same premise that ULN systems are based off of. Adding nutrients but exporting them just as fast as they are added will result in nutrients still being available, but testing out as zero. I'm not saying this is the goal for the OP, but generally, as long as the corals look healthy and the tank isn't experiencing any issues, I don't see any reason to start messing directly with it.
 
He already is too low, IMO. My lower nitrate limit target is 5 ppm. He is below 1 ppm.
Randy I have to apologize. This whole time my dyslexic butt had read his Nitrates at 5ppm, not 0.9ppm. Part of my confusion there.

Either way, it is to my understanding (and experience, I have had a few tanks with no dino issues where phosphates were around 0.07-0.1ppm but nitrates registered 0ppm) that even if nitrates do hit 0ppm, dino's only become an issue if phosphates also approach 0ppm.

Also aside from that, if phosphate is still being introduced to the tank through natural decomp, nitrate would still be present in some way. Therefore, you'd still have nutrients for the corals. Of course you could limit growth rates, but my whole argument was to try to keep things simple. I think as a hobby, we tend to push dosing chemicals and chasing numbers too much onto newer reefers, only confusing and causing more issues along the way.
 
Thank you so much bro you just made it simple for me. Bottom line is my favorite corals look great . All I gotta do is keep doing my normal weekly water changes and monitor ALK and don’t over do anything else. I might find out my alk is perfectly fine in 1 week lol
I apologized to Randy but I also need to apologize to you. I read your nitrates as 5ppm instead of 0.9ppm and that is enough of a change that my advice may not be the best for your situation.

I do agree with the others that 0.9ppm is a bit low. I've ran 0 nitrates before, but you could be entering some iffy territory there. I would purchase a bottle of NeoNitro or Nitrate+ to have on hand. I don't like to recommend adding things willy nilly to the tank, but to have it on hand in case you do see your nitrates hit 0 would be a good safety net. You could also feed a bit more and try to raise your nitrates that way. You'll likely see your phosphates also rise though, if that's the case, you may want to consider additional ways to export phosphate. GFO would be a good way to handle that.
 
I have a 6 year old 40 breeder, I still change 10 gallons weekly without fail, nitrates are usually 5 never higher than 10 (for me 10 is high) and phosphates always between .03 and .05. I feed 3-4 times a day, I dose AFR according to alk, and nothing else. This tank has never gotten dino's and I don't fear it because frankly (with all due to respect to others beliefs) I don't believe that low nutrients causes algae problems. My seahorse tank also runs very close to 0-0. My beliefs and eradication efforts are towards dissolved organics and bad bacteria's in the system, I believe these are the evil forces in our tanks. my opinion only
 
LOL yea, simple. Dose or don’t dose; I didn’t say it! Lol But I asked about Nitrate because maybe I would just do less water changes; as it pertained to the only question.

And Redfield ratio isa molar ratio so just ignore it all together; very advanced and unless you can test for all inorganic and organics and then convert to mg/L… It’s too much for whatever we’re talking about now.

ANYWAYS you could skip your weekly water change for a week or two and see how that faired testing wise?
 
I could be incorrect as I know of the Redfield ratio but have not researched it to a great degree. I thought the Redfield Ratio applies to the photosynthetic cells found within algae? Similar cellular structure found within photosynthetic corals, where its thought that corals would likely follow a similar ratio? The reason I thought as to why it gets brought up in conversation about nitrates and phosphates in a reef tank. I also thought that while the research on the Redfield ratio is based on micro algae, it also hasn't been proven that it doesn't apply to corals or macro algae. If you are more familiar with the subject, I'd love to learn more. Either way, my point wasn't necessarily about the ratio itself, it was about the large difference between nitrogen and phosphate.

Phosphate and nitrate both are produced from the decomposition of organic waste. OP isn't just adding straight phosphate to the tank. Therefore a logical conclusion, if one is present, the other also must be present. Clearly just being used at different rates. This is the same premise that ULN systems are based off of. Adding nutrients but exporting them just as fast as they are added will result in nutrients still being available, but testing out as zero. I'm not saying this is the goal for the OP, but generally, as long as the corals look healthy and the tank isn't experiencing any issues, I don't see any reason to start messing directly with it.
Redfield Ratio is for marine phytoplankton which is micro algae.

Fish food is not consistent in its ratio of N:P and neither is fish poop.

Gracilaria Parvispora sent in for analysis showed 30:1 N:P.

In general, macro algae N:P ratio can vary from 16:1 to 100:1.


Overview


What Is The Redfield Ratio and Why Should I Care? - ATI North ...

The Redfield Ratio is the near-constant atomic ratio of carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus (C:N:P) found in marine phytoplankton, typically observed as 106:16:1; named after Alfred C. Redfield, it serves as a fundamental benchmark in oceanography for understanding nutrient cycles, photosynthesis, and ecosystem health, showing the proportions in which these essential elements are used and recycled in the ocean's biological pump.
 
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Just an fyi, if nitrate is 0.9 ppm and you do a 10% water change, it drops to 0.8 ppm. That change is not causing the issue and stopping water changes will not solve it. :)
 
I could be incorrect as I know of the Redfield ratio but have not researched it to a great degree.
It has no reasonable context in reef management or dosing. You would be best served forgetting that you ever heard the term Redfield Ratio.

A reef aquarium has numerous complex nutrient pathways. There is no fixed consumption ratio. Those pathways require N P and C and consume at whatever ratio they do as long as N P and C are present. The ratio (whatever it is) does not drive consumption, it is the look backward at consumption.
 
It has no reasonable context in reef management or dosing. You would be best served forgetting that you ever heard the term Redfield Ratio.

A reef aquarium has numerous complex nutrient pathways. There is no fixed consumption ratio. Those pathways require N P and C and consume at whatever ratio they do as long as N P and C are present. The ratio (whatever it is) does not drive consumption, it is the look backward at consumption.

Just for my own curiosity Bean, I believe Julian Sprung said in a podcast that is hasn’t been proven or disproven that it doesn’t apply to reef aquarium. I’m sure I mis understood as this topic is pretty elevated, but I’d love to try to better understand the science behind why it doesn’t apply. Would you happen to know any good articles or resources on the subject?
 
Just for my own curiosity Bean, I believe Julian Sprung said in a podcast that is hasn’t been proven or disproven that it doesn’t apply to reef aquarium. I’m sure I mis understood as this topic is pretty elevated, but I’d love to try to better understand the science behind why it doesn’t apply. Would you happen to know any good articles or resources on the subject?

it is not "proven or disproven" because it was never intended to be applied to consumption outside of a very specific context. There is nothing to prove or disprove.

Redfield is widely misunderstood. It is not a prescription for nutrient ratios in a mixed system. It is a description of what certain organisms consume under very specific conditions.

Reef aquariums are complex food webs with diverse and variable nutrient pathways. N,P, and C are consumed as required by each of those pathways, in whatever ratio those organisms consume them. Consumption is not driven by the ratio present in the water column.
 
The primary problem with focussing on nutrient ratios is that it can allow both N and P to be too low or too high and still be in whatever perfect ratio you prefer.

If both are targeted to desirable ranges, whatever ranges you believe those to be, then it can never lead one astray.

I see no benefit and plenty of potential issues with thinking about nutrients in ratios.

Sadly, some of the icp companies have gone wild with ratios of all sorts of things being portrayed. I suspect that is to make it seem like they are supplying things their competitors are not, but there’s no evidence that these many ratios are worth any consideration whatsoever. Again, targeting ions to appropriate ranges seems desirable. Targeting ratios is not.
 
As far as proof, there is no scientific proof nitrate levels do anything for coral growth rate
Here is 345 citations from studies done world wide, including Marubini and Davies 1996 which is considered the best study on nitrate enrichment

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...vies/51065d2752eda4c079875e6d6da936dcb57048d2
I agree with a lot of you points, just pointing out elevated no3 has an impact on corals. It may or may not affect reef tank success but proof is clear.
 
Here is 345 citations from studies done world wide, including Marubini and Davies 1996 which is considered the best study on nitrate enrichment

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...vies/51065d2752eda4c079875e6d6da936dcb57048d2
I agree with a lot of you points, just pointing out elevated no3 has an impact on corals. It may or may not affect reef tank success but proof is clear.

Curious evidence to post.

The very first "proof" on your list is actually a test of ammonia, not nitrate, and it says nothing negative about elevated ammonia.

The second one is a test of light intensity. No mention of N.

The third one is a test of the effect of phytoplankton feeding on corals.

The fourth one is a test of lighting effects.

How far down your set of proof do we have to go to find anything relevant? lol
 
How far down your set of proof do we have to go to find anything relevant? lol
Haha! The citation are single examples in articles about various topics. However, “Marubini and Davies” is really all the proof needed, imo, as it is used in nearly all my books about nitrate enrichment effects on corals.
image.jpg
 

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