I need help ID diatoms or cyano?

[wendigo]

My Phosphate is 0.22
Nitrate is 0.4
I activated GFO so my phos goes down, my lights I lowered to 6 hours a day 40 percent power
I sand vacuum to remove it and comes back the next day any tips?

 

[zbrusko]

I’m dealing with the same thing. Dosing silicates helped, but I stopped before it was clear and it came back. Just started again.

 

[zbrusko]

Also, up the nitrates & if you dose silicates, stop the GFO.

 

[Reef Jedi]

My Phosphate is 0.22
Nitrate is 0.4
I activated GFO so my phos goes down, my lights I lowered to 6 hours a day 40 percent power
I sand vacuum to remove it and comes back the next day any tips?

Is it on the rocks and do you see long stringy pieces with bubbles?

 

[wendigo]

Is it on the rocks and do you see long stringy pieces with bubbles?

yes its on rock its stringy but nothing with bubbles.

 

[wendigo]

I’m dealing with the same thing. Dosing silicates helped, but I stopped before it was clear and it came back. Just started again.

which silicate did you use?

 

[zbrusko]

I’m dealing with the same thing. Dosing silicates helped, but I stopped before it was clear and it came back. Just started again.

which silicate did you use?

I use spongeExcel from Brightwell. There are likely cheaper and/or better options. @Randy Holmes-Farley may have a good alternative

 

[EnterName]

This looks like Dinoflagellates.

Brown dust = Diatoms
Brown stringy slime = Dinoflagellates

The tank looks fairly new, how long has it been running? I would not start any treatment if this is just part of the ugly phase within the first 6-ish months of a tank (longer or shorter depending on how much live rock and sand was used). Has your tank already gone through the ugly phase? (Diatoms followed by green hair alge in the first few months)?

 

[wendigo]

This looks like Dinoflagellates.

Brown dust = Diatoms
Brown stringy slime = Dinoflagellates

The tank looks fairly new, how long has it been running? I would not start any treatment if this is just part of the ugly phase within the first 6-ish months of a tank (longer or shorter depending on how much live rock and sand was used). Has your tank already gone through the ugly phase? (Diatoms followed by green hair alge in the first few months)?

Hi, It has been running maybe for 2 months now and it's pretty ugly rn lol

 

[EnterName]

This looks like Dinoflagellates.

Brown dust = Diatoms
Brown stringy slime = Dinoflagellates

The tank looks fairly new, how long has it been running? I would not start any treatment if this is just part of the ugly phase within the first 6-ish months of a tank (longer or shorter depending on how much live rock and sand was used). Has your tank already gone through the ugly phase? (Diatoms followed by green hair alge in the first few months)?

Hi, It has been running maybe for 2 months now and it's pretty ugly rn lol

Okay, then I wouldn't worry about it. New tanks go through what is known as "the ugly phase".

Basically it starts with diatoms (brown dust) covering sand and sometimes also rocks. Very often dinoflagellates appear as well which cause this stringy slime. In a few weeks or months green hair algae will follow. If you keep nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) low, everything will sort itself out. In fact, you cannot really stop it. Sooner or later the tank has to go through this process

In well established tanks dinoflagellates can be a true nightmare, but in a 2 month old tank they are pretty common and will disappear on their own in time. You don't need to do anything, besides making sure nutrient levels stay low. It is possible that nitrate and phosphate will drop to undetectable levels. This is fine, there is a lot of dinoflagellate growth right now and this can drain nutrients.

 

[wendigo]

I use spongeExcel from Brightwell. There are likely cheaper and/or better options. @Randy Holmes-Farley may have a good alternative

I appreciate it that

 

[wendigo]

Okay, then I wouldn't worry about it. New tanks go through what is known as "the ugly phase".

Basically it starts with diatoms (brown dust) covering sand and sometimes also rocks. Very often dinoflagellates appear as well which cause this stringy slime. In a few weeks or months green hair algae will follow. If you keep nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) low, everything will sort itself out. In fact, you cannot really stop it. Sooner or later the tank has to go through this process

In well established tanks dinoflagellates can be a true nightmare, but in a 2 month old tank they are pretty common and will disappear on their own in time. You don't need to do anything, besides making sure nutrient levels stay low. It is possible that nitrate and phosphate will drop to undetectable levels. This is fine, there is a lot of dinoflagellate growth right now and this can drain nutrients.

oh perfect then, I gladly appreciate the help made me less to worry about it i'll come back to this post in a couple of months with an update, I appreciate it that thank you so much.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

I think that's more akin to diatoms than true dinoflagellates. If your PO4 truly is that high and you haven't been holding at zero for extended periods of time, I don't think that's dinos.

Only way to know with certainty is to get a sample, put it under a microscope and take a picture of the sample. It's very easy to tell once you have that.

 

[EnterName]

I think that's more akin to diatoms than true dinoflagellates. If your PO4 truly is that high and you haven't been holding at zero for extended periods of time, I don't think that's dinos.

Only way to know with certainty is to get a sample, put it under a microscope and take a picture of the sample. It's very easy to tell once you have that.

Can you elaborate why dinoflagellates would only appear when phosphate drops below the detection limit of hobby test kits?

There are plenty of microscope-verified posts on R2R showing dinoflagellates with elevated or normal phosphate levels. They certainly are great in dealing with tanks with low phosphate levels, but it's certainly not a requirement.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Can you elaborate why dinoflagellates would only appear when phosphate drops below the detection limit of hobby test kits?

There are plenty of microscope-verified posts on R2R showing dinoflagellates with elevated or normal phosphate levels. They certainly are great in dealing with tanks with low phosphate levels, but it's certainly not a requirement.

Because the tank is only 2 months old and diatoms would easily outcompete dinos in elevated silica levels from the brand new sand and rock. It's often a tactic in battling dinos to elevate the silica and use diatoms as a defense of sorts. It usually takes awhile to burn out of silica for them to use and at that point, you are hoping that the rest of the microfauna can take hold and outcompete the dinos. Battle for the top.

Dinos/diatoms/bacteria/other things are always present. I just ran into dinos popping up in my 2 year old reef due to spring pollen/funk in the air. It raised my DOC substantially but didn't necessarily raise my nutrients. That allowed the dinos to win for awhile. It's a matter of promoting the good stuff to outcompete the bad stuff.

 

[EnterName]

Can you elaborate why dinoflagellates would only appear when phosphate drops below the detection limit of hobby test kits?

There are plenty of microscope-verified posts on R2R showing dinoflagellates with elevated or normal phosphate levels. They certainly are great in dealing with tanks with low phosphate levels, but it's certainly not a requirement.

Because the tank is only 2 months old and diatoms would easily outcompete dinos in elevated silica levels from the brand new sand and rock. It's often a tactic in battling dinos to elevate the silica and use diatoms as a defense of sorts. It usually takes awhile to burn out of silica for them to use and at that point, you are hoping that the rest of the microfauna can take hold and outcompete the dinos. Battle for the top.

Dinos/diatoms/bacteria/other things are always present. I just ran into dinos popping up in my 2 year old reef due to spring pollen/funk in the air. It raised my DOC substantially but didn't necessarily raise my nutrients. That allowed the dinos to win for awhile. It's a matter of promoting the good stuff to outcompete the bad stuff.

Why wouldn't dinoflagellates appear in 2 month old tanks? They are pretty low in the food chain and can spread fast on surfaces, just as diatoms.

There are many dino species that prey on diatoms if they opt for a mixotrophic feeding strategy and you can frequently see dinos and diatoms together under a microscope. It's probably one of the reasons why silicate dosing doesn't always resolve the issue or both diatoms and dinoflagellates appear together in some tanks.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Why wouldn't dinoflagellates appear in 2 month old tanks? They are pretty low in the food chain and can spread fast on surfaces, just as diatoms.

There are many dino species that prey on diatoms if they opt for a mixotrophic feeding strategy and you can frequently see dinos and diatoms together under a microscope. It's probably one of the reasons why silicate dosing doesn't always resolve the issue or both diatoms and dinoflagellates appear together in some tanks.

They can, BUT you haven't burned through the silica yet in the new sand at barely 2 months. That's all diatoms need and they can easily out reproduce a dino during that stage. You have barely even cycled the tank at 2 months. Bottomed out nutrients, especially PO4, do not allow other bacteria/algae/microfauna to out reproduce/compete the dinos since dinos can photosynthesize AND consume.

That's why I stated that the nutrients weren't 0/0 and since it's 2 months old it's probably diatoms. I also stated you won't know for sure until you get it under a microscope. I had diatoms at the 2-3 month mark and dinos at around the 6 month mark and that was on me not realizing the PO4 bottomed out. Not trying to argue. That just looks more in line with diatoms but it absolutely could be dinos as well - hence the microscope.

 

[EnterName]

Why wouldn't dinoflagellates appear in 2 month old tanks? They are pretty low in the food chain and can spread fast on surfaces, just as diatoms.

There are many dino species that prey on diatoms if they opt for a mixotrophic feeding strategy and you can frequently see dinos and diatoms together under a microscope. It's probably one of the reasons why silicate dosing doesn't always resolve the issue or both diatoms and dinoflagellates appear together in some tanks.

They can, BUT you haven't burned through the silica yet in the new sand at barely 2 months. That's all diatoms need and they can easily out reproduce a dino during that stage. You have barely even cycled the tank at 2 months. Bottomed out nutrients, especially PO4, do not allow other bacteria/algae/microfauna to out reproduce/compete the dinos since dinos can photosynthesize AND consume.

That's why I stated that the nutrients weren't 0/0 and since it's 2 months old it's probably diatoms. I also stated you won't know for sure until you get it under a microscope. I had diatoms at the 2-3 month mark and dinos at around the 6 month mark and that was on me not realizing the PO4 bottomed out. Not trying to argue. That just looks more in line with diatoms but it absolutely could be dinos as well - hence the microscope.

Why "okay chill"? I was just asking for your reasoning I genuinely just don't understand the logic behind your arguments and didn't mean to attack you in any way.

Don't get me wrong, a microscope would help to clarify what this actually is and I'm not claiming to be 100% correct with my diagnosis, but I don't think a diagnosis based on tank age and nutrient levels is a good argument for/against diatoms/dinos.

Diatoms require carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus just as all other organisms we know of. Silicate alone is not enough. In fact, they potentially require more nitrogen and phosphorus than dinoflagellates: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/microbiology/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2021.731786/full