Ich in DT. Cannot remove all fish. What can be done?

[Zero_Cool]

Tank details:
4 months new
230 gallon
Mixed reef - 60+ frags/colonies
LR and sand
Fish:
(2) Clownfish
(4) Anthias
Spotted Mandarin (rescue)
Randall's Goby
Sailfin Tang
Purple Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Gem Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Inverts:
(2) Skunk cleaner shrimp
Fire Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Fighting Conch
Various snails
(2) Blue Legged Hermits

Have started treatment with Polyplabs Medic and Ruby Rally Pro.

Even if I can catch the 2 symptomatic fish and remove them to a hospital tank, I cannot catch all to go fallow for 60+ days.

What can I do to help reduce infection rates of current and future fish?

I have a 25w UV from a prior set up that I could add on but that seems way under powered.

I am happy to vacuum the sandbed and already use a fleece roller.

What wlse can be done?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank details:
4 months new
230 gallon
Mixed reef - 60+ frags/colonies
LR and sand
Fish:
(2) Clownfish
(4) Anthias
Spotted Mandarin (rescue)
Randall's Goby
Sailfin Tang
Purple Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Gem Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Inverts:
(2) Skunk cleaner shrimp
Fire Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Fighting Conch
Various snails
(2) Blue Legged Hermits

Have started treatment with Polyplabs Medic and Ruby Rally Pro.

Even if I can catch the 2 symptomatic fish and remove them to a hospital tank, I cannot catch all to go fallow for 60+ days.

What can I do to help reduce infection rates of current and future fish?

I have a 25w UV from a prior set up that I could add on but that seems way under powered.

I am happy to vacuum the sandbed and already use a fleece roller.

What wlse can be done?

Just sent you an email reply

 

[Zero_Cool]

Thank you.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just sent you an email reply

We should keep it on the public board so everyone can learn.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tank details:
4 months new
230 gallon
Mixed reef - 60+ frags/colonies
LR and sand
Fish:
(2) Clownfish
(4) Anthias
Spotted Mandarin (rescue)
Randall's Goby
Sailfin Tang
Purple Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Gem Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Inverts:
(2) Skunk cleaner shrimp
Fire Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Fighting Conch
Various snails
(2) Blue Legged Hermits

Have started treatment with Polyplabs Medic and Ruby Rally Pro.

Even if I can catch the 2 symptomatic fish and remove them to a hospital tank, I cannot catch all to go fallow for 60+ days.

What can I do to help reduce infection rates of current and future fish?

I have a 25w UV from a prior set up that I could add on but that seems way under powered.

I am happy to vacuum the sandbed and already use a fleece roller.

What wlse can be done?

I think you may need to go with Medic and Rally Pro and just cross your fingers. A 25w UV is way too small, even a 80w might not be enough to see much control. Siphoning the sand diligently every night can remove some tomonts before they produce infective tomites/theronts.

Here is a write-up I did on "ich management"

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.


Jay

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think you may need to go with Medic and Rally Pro and just cross your fingers. A 25w UV is way too small, even a 80w might not be enough to see much control. Siphoning the sand diligently every night can remove some tomonts before they produce infective tomites/theronts.

Here is a write-up I did on "ich management"

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.


Jay

Thank you.

Regarding siphoning the sand bed - if I am treating with Medic and Rally, do I siphon through a filter sock or am I pulling the water out as well?

Medic recommends shutting down the skimmer which I have. Should I turn it back on?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you.

Regarding siphoning the sand bed - if I am treating with Medic and Rally, do I siphon through a filter sock or am I pulling the water out as well?

Medic recommends shutting down the skimmer which I have. Should I turn it back on?

No, you should dispose of the water from the siphoning.

I'm not sure what you read where Medic says to turn off the skimmer. Here is what they say:

Note: Ozone and carbon must not be used during the treatment. Protein skimmers can be run as as normal. UV filter can be used one hour after dosing.


Jay

 

[Zero_Cool]

No, you should dispose of the water from the siphoning.

I'm not sure what you read where Medic says to turn off the skimmer. Here is what they say:

Note: Ozone and carbon must not be used during the treatment. Protein skimmers can be run as as normal. UV filter can be used one hour after dosing.


Jay

Sorry, Ruby Rally Pro says turn off the skimmer.

 

[vetteguy53081]

We should keep it on the public board so everyone can learn.

Jay

He PM'd me but will posted publicly. I gave short answer as I was on the road

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, Ruby Rally Pro says turn off the skimmer.

O.K., that's because of the Acriflavine. Skimmers help oxygenate the water. It is advisable to keep the skimmer running (for the bubbles) just don't collect any skimmate/foam.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank details:
4 months new
230 gallon
Mixed reef - 60+ frags/colonies
LR and sand
Fish:
(2) Clownfish
(4) Anthias
Spotted Mandarin (rescue)
Randall's Goby
Sailfin Tang
Purple Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Gem Tang (symptomatic - new fish)
Inverts:
(2) Skunk cleaner shrimp
Fire Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Fighting Conch
Various snails
(2) Blue Legged Hermits

Have started treatment with Polyplabs Medic and Ruby Rally Pro.

Even if I can catch the 2 symptomatic fish and remove them to a hospital tank, I cannot catch all to go fallow for 60+ days.

What can I do to help reduce infection rates of current and future fish?

I have a 25w UV from a prior set up that I could add on but that seems way under powered.

I am happy to vacuum the sandbed and already use a fleece roller.

What wlse can be done?

Ok. . Polyp Lab and ruby is at times a good answer to velvet. As I stated earlier, you will want to remove them all for effective treatment and Fallow will be a must. At times, tearing a tank apart is warranted for capture as long as injury is not part of capture. Because of the type of fish, you will want a minimum of 40 gallon breeder, even a 55g - consider a used tank for cost savings - just assure its cleaned well prior to use.
Because the sailfin has been a problem child, you can use a divider for it to share the treatment tank, however I would NOT recommend egg crate which can cause injury to the sailfin if it is persistent in trying to get through.
In Lieu of Medic, use coppersafe or copper Power.
Treat at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[Zero_Cool]

He PM'd me but will posted publicly. I gave short answer as I was on the road

This is correct and I am sorry if I have caused an issue in my panic.

 

[schafon]

I had similar case to yours, could it be that the ick started because of fighting between the Gem and the purple tangs?
My purple tang was the first to show symptoms, even before my powder blue.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Ok. . Polyp Lab and ruby is at times a good answer to velvet. As I stated earlier, you will want to remove them all for effective treatment and Fallow will be a must. At times, tearing a tank apart is warranted for capture as long as injury is not part of capture. Because of the type of fish, you will want a minimum of 40 gallon breeder, even a 55g - consider a used tank for cost savings - just assure its cleaned well prior to use.
Because the sailfin has been a problem child, you can use a divider for it to share the treatment tank, however I would NOT recommend egg crate which can cause injury to the sailfin if it is persistent in trying to get through.
In Lieu of Medic, use coppersafe or copper Power.
Treat at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

Thank you.

It will take some time to set up/cycle a hospital tank. I have a 40 breeder in the garage that I can use.

Do I continue with Medic and Ruby until hospital tank is cycled?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you.

It will take some time to set up/cycle a hospital tank. I have a 40 breeder in the garage that I can use.

Do I continue with Medic and Ruby until hospital tank is cycled?

Yes- Better than zero protection

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had similar case to yours, could it be that the ick started because of fighting between the Gem and the purple tangs?
My purple tang was the first to show symptoms, even before my powder blue.

Its likely coincidence- Powder blue, purple, achilles and sailfin seem to contract ich more than most tangs/surgeon fish

 

[Zero_Cool]

Yes- Better than zero protection

Thank you. I will run it all.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Update:

Thank you both for your patience and help.

Gem and Purple tang have survived currently and are getting along with the Sailfin. All 3 are eating off the same nori sheet. Lost 2 Lyretail and the Mandarin with a 3rd Lyretail looking rough. Not sure if those deaths were ich or difficulty with the peroxide salts.

Corals look terrible and I have started losing LPS following treatment. Acan, torches, Duncans, hammer and mushrooms are shrinking and melting. SPS have all browned out and I am seeing some tissue loss. Zoas and Palys are looking great. Chalice corals are doing ok.

I have ordered a UV large enough to run inline from the return to the DT and will add that this weekend.

My question now is - where do I go from here?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update:

Thank you both for your patience and help.

Gem and Purple tang have survived currently and are getting along with the Sailfin. All 3 are eating off the same nori sheet. Lost 2 Lyretail and the Mandarin with a 3rd Lyretail looking rough. Not sure if those deaths were ich or difficulty with the peroxide salts.

Corals look terrible and I have started losing LPS following treatment. Acan, torches, Duncans, hammer and mushrooms are shrinking and melting. SPS have all browned out and I am seeing some tissue loss. Zoas and Palys are looking great. Chalice corals are doing ok.

I have ordered a UV large enough to run inline from the return to the DT and will add that this weekend.

My question now is - where do I go from here?

As long as good water parameters and lighting, coral will slowly recover - the risk of treating in-tank

 

[Lavey29]

If you want to try holistic methods pure ginger extract in the fish food to boost immune system.