ICH

[winxp_man]

I'd say TTM is riskier. There's no guarantee you won't accidentally transfer some theronts with the fish, and some flukes can be stubborn enough to need more than 2 doses of prazi. But you wouldn't know that if you don't observe the fish for long enough.

And honestly, I avoid transferring some species, like tilefish, unless it's absolutely necessary. No matter what I use, net, scoop or even my hand, they completely freak out and risk injuring themselves every time. I would never consider TTM for them. I've also had wrasses get stressed from having to dig them out of the sand for transfers, so the whole thing just sounds really stressful to me.

On top of that, feeding 4 times a day to fatten fish up with no biofilter? While dosing NFG which essentially killed off my biofilter, my ammonia has been climbing by about 1 ppm per day and I've barely been able to keep up. I honestly don't know how people manage TTM unless they're barely feeding during that period...

I really think copper is the easier route. You just test the copper level once a day and adjust it if needed. No stress if you're late by a day, no need to catch and transfer the fish every few days, and no need to sterilize everything each time.

I also use a preseeded sponge from my DT, so the quarantine tank is instantly cycled. With that setup, I usually only do two 50% water changes per week, sometimes less. I've never had to worry about ammonia.

Plus, those 30 days are beneficial too. They give me plenty of time to fatten the fish up, observe its behavior and make sure it's healthy before it goes into my DT. I don't really see a reason to shorten that period and risk anything getting through...

Talk about fat, my new yellow is putting on a belly! I can’t stand places that don’t feed enough. And I get it, when it comes to LFS’s. Feel like some just don’t care out side of money. I would not be able to run a LFS. At least I don’t think haha. I would try to fix all fish that have issues. Haha.


This when I got him/her

And now you can see it plump up.

any hint of blue in lights and the yellow on these fish just vanishes so easy haha.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Later 80s?? Wish I knew about it sooner. Who invented that method? TTM has worked great for me therefore I recommend others to try for themselves.

We tried using it when I was department manager for the Shedd Aquarium. My curator had heard about it. Not sure from where. Possibly from people at the old Cleveland Aquarium or the Mystic aquarium group. We had a series of 100 gallon tanks set up and could move fish in groups from tank to tank. We tried a number of runs. It worked for ich, but it kept letting flukes through so we quit using it. Hyposalinity cured both flukes and ich, so was a much better choice.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Why not use H202

Hydrogen peroxide as a high concentration dip works against Amyloodinium, but you need to move the fish to a clean tank, typically three times.

Treating a display tank with peroxide doesn’t work, and some diseases like flukes cannot be killed by peroxide at doses less than would also kill the fish.

 

[me & my baby]

Why not use H202

Hydrogen peroxide as a high concentration dip works against Amyloodinium, but you need to move the fish to a clean tank, typically three times.

Treating a display tank with peroxide doesn’t work, and some diseases like flukes cannot be killed by peroxide at doses less than would also kill the fish.

There is a reefer on another forum that has documented the H202 in tank treatment with multiple doses a day and has had great success.

 

[winxp_man]

There is a reefer on another forum that has documented the H202 in tank treatment with multiple doses a day and has had great success.

The amount of moving to do baths with H2o2 is the stress factor Jay keeps telling people about.

Also baths for the most part only work as a temp thing. I to have read plenty on H2o2. On other forums not here. And have seen plenty come out stating that the disease came back. Baths don’t take care of example the ich trophont stage. Not even copper take them out. It’s why the protocol is 30 days. Two weeks to get the fish to shed the ich trophonts, and an extra two weeks to make sure non are left behind depending on the timing of the fish getting infected. Copper kills Ich once they are released. Same thing with H2o2 in bath temp relief from anything that falls off that is surface level. But the dug in parasites can’t be dealt with. Only time in medication does that. Remember most of these diseases we fight against operate in the numbers game. They infect, feed on the fish, come to the surface, fall off in the tank go into encrusted stage, pop out breed and reinfect. Each reinfection will only produce more and more, until the fish is dead. Another reason why all medics here put it simple, if you can the best method is QT in copper. The copper water kills the disease as it floating in the tank after falling off the fish.

We need to understand that the mucus of the fish actually protects the disease to a degree. How much? Hard to say, but enough can possibly be left on the fish that if you cut the protocol short you end up seeing reinfection. Have read many posts with copper QT and taking about reinfection. Only to ask and hard questions and the answer is there was a lapse in copper level, or treatment cut short. Or in the bath method enough the fish is not in the bath long enough to really take care of the issue, and reason why…. The fish can end up dead. So back to my statement above you end up having to multiple baths. At this point the amount of stress you’re inducing on fish is next level. And you also need clean sterilized tank everything you do a bath.

Over all I basically see way too many risks with HTTM or TTM. And work that has to get put in to properly QT a fish.

Most of the time people don’t have reputable LFS’s with fish that don’t carry disease or less diseases in their systems. I’m in the latter, hit and miss or any given Sunday when it comes to sick fish. Got a flame and decided to not do QT because of there I got him from. All was good without any QT. I only put it in a QT tank to cure its eye that got damaged and infected. But this LFS does not carry fish of my taste all the time. The one that does have about anything I want any given Sunday is infected with diseases in the tanks. It’s so bad I got ich from ogo algae i got from there to feed my tangs last year. But as long as I properly QT it’s all good. You can see the yellow I got from there posted above.

 

[me & my baby]

There is a reefer on another forum that has documented the H202 in tank treatment with multiple doses a day and has had great success.

The amount of moving to do baths with H2o2 is the stress factor Jay keeps telling people about.

Also baths for the most part only work as a temp thing. I to have read plenty on H2o2. On other forums not here. And have seen plenty come out stating that the disease came back. Baths don’t take care of example the ich trophont stage. Not even copper take them out. It’s why the protocol is 30 days. Two weeks to get the fish to shed the ich trophonts, and an extra two weeks to make sure non are left behind depending on the timing of the fish getting infected. Copper kills Ich once they are released. Same thing with H2o2 in bath temp relief from anything that falls off that is surface level. But the dug in parasites can’t be dealt with. Only time in medication does that. Remember most of these diseases we fight against operate in the numbers game. They infect, feed on the fish, come to the surface, fall off in the tank go into encrusted stage, pop out breed and reinfect. Each reinfection will only produce more and more, until the fish is dead. Another reason why all medics here put it simple, if you can the best method is QT in copper. The copper water kills the disease as it floating in the tank after falling off the fish.

We need to understand that the mucus of the fish actually protects the disease to a degree. How much? Hard to say, but enough can possibly be left on the fish that if you cut the protocol short you end up seeing reinfection. Have read many posts with copper QT and taking about reinfection. Only to ask and hard questions and the answer is there was a lapse in copper level, or treatment cut short. Or in the bath method enough the fish is not in the bath long enough to really take care of the issue, and reason why…. The fish can end up dead. So back to my statement above you end up having to multiple baths. At this point the amount of stress you’re inducing on fish is next level. And you also need clean sterilized tank everything you do a bath.

Over all I basically see way too many risks with HTTM or TTM. And work that has to get put in to properly QT a fish.

Most of the time people don’t have reputable LFS’s with fish that don’t carry disease or less diseases in their systems. I’m in the latter, hit and miss or any given Sunday when it comes to sick fish. Got a flame and decided to not do QT because of there I got him from. All was good without any QT. I only put it in a QT tank to cure its eye that got damaged and infected. But this LFS does not carry fish of my taste all the time. The one that does have about anything I want any given Sunday is infected with diseases in the tanks. It’s so bad I got ich from ogo algae i got from there to feed my tangs last year. But as long as I properly QT it’s all good. You can see the yellow I got from there posted above.

It’s not a bath it’s an in tank treatment . I don’t know if I can post a thread from another site but it very detailed and a lot of people are having good success even with uronema

 

[winxp_man]

It’s not a bath it’s an in tank treatment . I don’t know if I can post a thread from another site but it very detailed and a lot of people are having good success even with uronema

I have tried peroxide, and because you really don’t know total about in the tank it makes it hard to use. I have tried it in tank and it’s only good when the ich infection is at minimal.

I have read many threads online and have seen the conclusion even by a medic that uses to be a part of this forum. And he even stated if ich is just starting to show it can possibly work. But if your fish is infested good luck.

And if I’m treating it in tank, why even deal with a lesser solution? Copper is way better at taking care of diseases if you ask me. And I know exactly how much is in the tank at all time. I don’t have to play the guessing game with copper power or safe. Hanna readers are real accurate with measuring it.

I even played with H2o2 in my DT, dosed at what everyone was discussing on another forum. And what I saw reading thread after thread. It’s the first infestation that can possibly be cured vs one where fish are just riddled with ich.

Any one can do what they want, I’m couldn’t care less. But as of now copper is the tried and true that really does work dead on compared to the other methods, and it’s something any beginner reading Jay’s protocol can do. The others you better know a thing or two about baths, measuring doses and what to look for.

 

[winxp_man]

delete double post

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It’s not a bath it’s an in tank treatment . I don’t know if I can post a thread from another site but it very detailed and a lot of people are having good success even with uronema

Before relying on Peroxides, you need to be able to measure the active amount of oxidants in the water. this changes over time. When you first add peroxides, it reacts with peroxidases from algae, etc, and burns itself up pretty quick. When those get used up, there is more free oxidants. If your aren't careful, you can poison the animals. The first to go will be the ornamental shrimp, then the fish. Corals are really resilient to it.

Here is an article I wrote on this topic:

Hydrogen Peroxide Bench-testing

Bench testing of the effects of hydrogen peroxide in aquariums.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Squidward]

I'd say TTM is riskier. There's no guarantee you won't accidentally transfer some theronts with the fish, and some flukes can be stubborn enough to need more than 2 doses of prazi. But you wouldn't know that if you don't observe the fish for long enough.

And honestly, I avoid transferring some species, like tilefish, unless it's absolutely necessary. No matter what I use, net, scoop or even my hand, they completely freak out and risk injuring themselves every time. I would never consider TTM for them. I've also had wrasses get stressed from having to dig them out of the sand for transfers, so the whole thing just sounds really stressful to me.

On top of that, feeding 4 times a day to fatten fish up with no biofilter? While dosing NFG which essentially killed off my biofilter, my ammonia has been climbing by about 1 ppm per day and I've barely been able to keep up. I honestly don't know how people manage TTM unless they're barely feeding during that period...

I really think copper is the easier route. You just test the copper level once a day and adjust it if needed. No stress if you're late by a day, no need to catch and transfer the fish every few days, and no need to sterilize everything each time.

I also use a preseeded sponge from my DT, so the quarantine tank is instantly cycled. With that setup, I usually only do two 50% water changes per week, sometimes less. I've never had to worry about ammonia.

Plus, those 30 days are beneficial too. They give me plenty of time to fatten the fish up, observe its behavior and make sure it's healthy before it goes into my DT. I don't really see a reason to shorten that period and risk anything getting through...

I only feed once. Never heard of feeding 4 times? Must be some really thin or special fish that needs that.

 

[christinna77]

I'd say TTM is riskier. There's no guarantee you won't accidentally transfer some theronts with the fish, and some flukes can be stubborn enough to need more than 2 doses of prazi. But you wouldn't know that if you don't observe the fish for long enough.

And honestly, I avoid transferring some species, like tilefish, unless it's absolutely necessary. No matter what I use, net, scoop or even my hand, they completely freak out and risk injuring themselves every time. I would never consider TTM for them. I've also had wrasses get stressed from having to dig them out of the sand for transfers, so the whole thing just sounds really stressful to me.

On top of that, feeding 4 times a day to fatten fish up with no biofilter? While dosing NFG which essentially killed off my biofilter, my ammonia has been climbing by about 1 ppm per day and I've barely been able to keep up. I honestly don't know how people manage TTM unless they're barely feeding during that period...

I really think copper is the easier route. You just test the copper level once a day and adjust it if needed. No stress if you're late by a day, no need to catch and transfer the fish every few days, and no need to sterilize everything each time.

I also use a preseeded sponge from my DT, so the quarantine tank is instantly cycled. With that setup, I usually only do two 50% water changes per week, sometimes less. I've never had to worry about ammonia.

Plus, those 30 days are beneficial too. They give me plenty of time to fatten the fish up, observe its behavior and make sure it's healthy before it goes into my DT. I don't really see a reason to shorten that period and risk anything getting through...

I only feed once. Never heard of feeding 4 times? Must be some really thin or special fish that needs that.

In SW, feeding once a day is not sufficient for many fish (anthias, tilefish are good examples), and is recommended to feed at least twice a day for most other fish, except for some predators, for example...

Plus, lots of times fish come in quite thin or sick, which is when you definitely want to feed them a lot.

 

[winxp_man]

In SW, feeding once a day is not sufficient for many fish (anthias, tilefish are good examples), and is recommended to feed at least twice a day for most other fish, except for some predators, for example...

Plus, lots of times fish come in quite thin or sick, which is when you definitely want to feed them a lot.

Tangs are a fish that is also not single feed a day.

Clowns on the other hand can make it by once a day. Most fish that swim long strides in a tank need to eat as such. No need to over feed during the feeding time to the point it gets left in the tank.

It’s a feed just smaller portions throughout the day though.

For tangs it’s also a smart thing to do to keep the peace once they are in the DT.

 

[Squidward]

In SW, feeding once a day is not sufficient for many fish (anthias, tilefish are good examples), and is recommended to feed at least twice a day for most other fish, except for some predators, for example...

Plus, lots of times fish come in quite thin or sick, which is when you definitely want to feed them a lot.

I know anthias require a lot therefore I don't care to keep them. I only feed once during QT. I usually feed more often in the display.

 

[christinna77]

In SW, feeding once a day is not sufficient for many fish (anthias, tilefish are good examples), and is recommended to feed at least twice a day for most other fish, except for some predators, for example...

Plus, lots of times fish come in quite thin or sick, which is when you definitely want to feed them a lot.

I know anthias require a lot therefore I don't care to keep them. I only feed once during QT. I usually feed more often in the display.

If that works for you. Personally, I feed all new fish at least 4 times a day while they're in QT. I want them eating well, putting on weight and leaving QT in the best shape possible. I would not move a fish into my DT until it has gained a healthy amount of weight and looks strong and confident enough to settle in.