UV sterilizer plumbing

[UncommonSense]

Was my diagram inline on the return plumbing??

Your diagram is sump to sump, I’m recommending having the pump that runs the UV also run as the dedicated return pump!

Essentially the pump pushing water into the UV is also then pushing it into the tank??

Precisely! Both the plumbing on the tank itself, and the target flow rate through the UV line up nicely!

Where would the pump for the UV go in the sump? And if I'm understanding this correctly

You just attach the UV to the dedicated return pump, on the plumbing going back to the tank!

— The UV can always be turned off, effectively making it a large diameter piece of pipe!

what are the risks

the primary risk would be the UV sterilizer’s fittings or housing somehow springing a leak, this is highly unlikely with correct maintenance, but it would mean you need to somehow fix the UV leak before you can turn your dedicated return pump back on!

— this can be mitigated via unions so a length of pipe can be swapped in place of the UV in an emergency… alternatively, you can just plumb a pair of T fittings into the dedicated return pump’s plumbing (before and after UV) that allow you to bypass the UV completely!

VarioS 10

This is WAY too much pump… you’ll be maxing out the tank’s return plumbing flow at 20-30% power… (the return plumbing is restricted to a mere 3/4” where it passes through the glass)

On the positioning of the UV unit itself: besides the intricate piping sending water up and down, are there other risks/benefits to vertical vs. horizontal?

The only risk to watch out for is having that UV sterilizer outlet pointed downhill, which can cause air bubbles to accumulate in the UV sterilizer body over time, possibly even leading to bulb overheating! (angle the outlet so air bubbles want to burp out, vs. stay trapped!)

Also are those union joints on the sterilizer?

Yes they are! This allows you to disconnect the sterilizer from your plumbing for service!

Does it mean I could put a reducer bushing there directly?

Yes it does! However, this is where you can paint yourself into a corner, plumbing-wise if you reduce from 2” to 3/4”-1” in one step:

— you need to cement the reducers into those proprietary Lifegard specific union sockets… this means you’re committing to whatever size you reduce to!

— the proprietary union halves are typically a replaceable component… though, as @BryanM discovered, they can be quite overpriced for what they are!

— To save you having to re-buy these proprietary union halves later if you ever swap this UV onto a bigger tank/etc, I’m recommending that you reduce in two steps; 2” (slip) to 1.5” (pipe thread)… then 1.5” (pipe thread) to 3/4”-1” (thread or slip)! This will allow you to unscrew the externally threaded second reducing bushing from the 1.5” internally threaded first bushing, thus leaving the door open (in the form of 1.5” threads) for any higher flow installation!

 

[mmorrison55]

Anything that goes from 2” to whatever size your piping will be will work. Whether it’s a bushing, reducing coupler, etc. most people use a bushing as typically they go from 2 inches to an inch or less.

Ideally, if you want as much flow rate as possible, you want fewer bends/ elbows, and you want to keep the pipe as large as possible. The varios s10 is a big pump, and may be more than needed, and can do 1.25 output, so I’d do a 2” to 1 1/4” reducing bushing.

Do you have a controller such as Neptune apex or hydros? That could come into play if you were planning to have a flow meter for really dialing in the flow rate. Hydros has a 2”, 1 1/2 or 1” flow sensor and apex has a 2 or 1” flow sensor, so yiu might want to adjust your bushing and pipe size accordingly. Just something to think about since it seems like you are shooting for some very specific flow rates.

 

[DmitryB]

I am very intrigued by the idea of having the return come directly out of the UV! I want to make this work and yes, have the option of easily removing it from the equation if I ever change my mind or in case of an emergency. I need to figure out what bushings/unions/etc., I'm going to need for this. And how much PVC. (I want to buy purple PVC schedule 40 to color coordinate it with the UV.)

I did buy Apex to control the system, though I have yet to even begin figuring out how that whole thing works. It's definitely a good idea to buy their flow meters! So where do I place it and 2 or 1''?

Also, yeah I guess that VarioS-10 is going to be way too powerful. I'm going to have this Quiet One 1,188 gph and the MightyJet XL 2,656 gph on hand.

 

[UncommonSense]

I need to figure out what bushings/unions/etc., I'm going to need for this. And how much PVC. (I want to buy purple PVC schedule 40 to color coordinate it with the UV.)

Are you planning just purple pipe? Or purple fittings, too?

Purple fittings has a catch in that you can only get the simple ones (tees, 45/90 elbows, straight pipe couplers, plugs/caps…) and only in slip… NPT (National Pipe Thread) fittings aren’t readily available in many colors aside from white, grey, and black! (Unions in particular)

So where do I place it and 2 or 1''?

A flow meter can go either before, or after the UV sterilizer, assuming you have it plumbed inline from the return pump as mentioned above!

1” is probably plenty for your current system, you’ll likely never fully utilize a 2” flow meter, that’s HUGE (and expensive!)

I'm going to have this Quiet One 1,188 gph and the MightyJet XL 2,656 gph on hand.

It’s shocking to me that IM packages a 2656gph pump with a tank that has a return plumbing hole drilled for a 3/4” pipe size bulkhead…

For context:

3/4” plumbing can only even get close to reaching the factory pump’s advertised max flow if the pump was somehow making 100psi of plumbing pressure (spoiler, it doesn’t… it makes maybe 10% of that… so look in the green shaded section of the chart, <20psi)

You can probably see why I’m recommending the 1188gph Lifegard pump with 1” plumbing after reading into the chart a bit…

 

[DmitryB]

I'd be fine with gray or black fittings; when I looked for purple, it was slim pickings! So what and how many fittings will I theoretically need?

I'll order the 1'' flow meter for Apex.

MightyJet XL is adjustable so it's not worth having a more powerful pump dialed down?

I also have to figure out where this unit will be attached. I asked IM and they do not recommend drilling into the stand, which is fair enough. So I need to figure how to attach it horizontally and attach it to what?! They said people use J Bars, but I'm not sure what they attach the J Bars to. I may have to see once it all gets here just what kind of space there is inside this stand with the sump, but it will not be a lot of space! Their sumps are unnecessarily large. So far that's been my one complaint about their design.

 

[UncommonSense]

So what and how many fittings will I theoretically need?

This is honestly next to impossible to answer accurately without seeing exactly where the UV’s inlet and outlet will exist in space relative to the tank plumbing, and sump return chamber!

You’ll want a union up at the return plumbing bulkhead fitting (the part that lets plumbing pass through the tank’s bottom glass), you’ll likely need to make at least 3 90 degree bends, possibly more… either two 45 elbows, or a 90 elbow achieves these…

According to BRS, this sterilizer’s dimensions are as follows: 32.5" L x 4.51" W x 9" H

— given that this UV sterilizer is over 2.5ft long, you will likely only be able to fit it on the back of the stand!

MightyJet XL is adjustable so it's not worth having a more powerful pump dialed down?

You can definitely do this, too! The Lifegard pump may consume a bit less total power, just because you’d be running it closer to 60-80% power, where a DC pump is typically most efficient!

I also have to figure out where this unit will be attached. I asked IM and they do not recommend drilling into the stand, which is fair enough. So I need to figure how to attach it horizontally and attach it to what?!

I see enough space on the sides of the sump to make a frame out of aluminum or composite t-slot extrusion… you’d have the feet on each side of sump, legs sticking up past the sump, then a crossbar attaching both legs together! — this yields a rigid rail above/behind the sump that things can be mounted to!

 

[DmitryB]

So what and how many fittings will I theoretically need?

This is honestly next to impossible to answer accurately without seeing exactly where the UV’s inlet and outlet will exist in space relative to the tank plumbing, and sump return chamber!

You’ll want a union up at the return plumbing bulkhead fitting (the part that lets plumbing pass through the tank’s bottom glass), you’ll likely need to make at least 3 90 degree bends, possibly more… either two 45 elbows, or a 90 elbow achieves these…

According to BRS, this sterilizer’s dimensions are as follows: 32.5" L x 4.51" W x 9" H

— given that this UV sterilizer is over 2.5ft long, you will likely only be able to fit it on the back of the stand!

MightyJet XL is adjustable so it's not worth having a more powerful pump dialed down?

You can definitely do this, too! The Lifegard pump may consume a bit less total power, just because you’d be running it closer to 60-80% power, where a DC pump is typically most efficient!

I also have to figure out where this unit will be attached. I asked IM and they do not recommend drilling into the stand, which is fair enough. So I need to figure how to attach it horizontally and attach it to what?!

I see enough space on the sides of the sump to make a frame out of aluminum or composite t-slot extrusion… you’d have the feet on each side of sump, legs sticking up past the sump, then a crossbar attaching both legs together! — this yields a rigid rail above/behind the sump that things can be mounted to!

I'll see if I can make a contraption that you describe! It may be possible to put the UV on the bottom of cabinet in front of the sump. I think it may just be narrow enough to fit. Maybe attach it to a board and Velcro (!) the board to the floor.

I know some people got smaller sumps and adjusted the plumbing, so they can have some room in the stand.

 

[Privateye]

I would not use this table:

It lacks the information required to be correct (the length of pipe at a given diameter) and also has some obvious errors. 100 PSI is considered "average" pressure? That's enough to shoot water 230' into the air.

On the "high pressure" side (which I suppose would be over 100 PSI) it lists 36 gpm for 3/4" pipe. Each foot of 3/4" pipe will add approximately 1 PSI of head pressure at 36 gpm. So if the pipe diameter is larger, but necks-down to 3/4" at the bulkhead, it really isn't going to cause much restriction. Likely less than 1'. I'm wondering if the values on this table are "per 100' of pipe". I've seen a lot of tables like this that list the friction loss for 100'.

For the OP, there are 27.7" of water pressure per PSI. They're just different units to measure pressure. And when we're talking inches of water, that applies both to pumping water straight up, and pumping air down to a given water depth.

 

[UncommonSense]

I would not use this table:

It lacks the information required to be correct (the length of pipe at a given diameter) and also has some obvious errors. 100 PSI is considered "average" pressure? That's enough to shoot water 230' into the air.

On the "high pressure" side (which I suppose would be over 100 PSI) it lists 36 gpm for 3/4" pipe. Each foot of 3/4" pipe will add approximately 1 PSI of head pressure at 36 gpm. So if the pipe diameter is larger, but necks-down to 3/4" at the bulkhead, it really isn't going to cause much restriction. Likely less than 1'. I'm wondering if the values on this table are "per 100' of pipe". I've seen a lot of tables like this that list the friction loss for 100'.

For the OP, there are 27.7" of water pressure per PSI. They're just different units to measure pressure. And when we're talking inches of water, that applies both to pumping water straight up, and pumping air down to a given water depth.

It appears that you’re focused on the Hazen-Williams equation side of things, which is a very different chart!

This chart isn’t perfect, but is “good enough” for representing orifice flow rates at given pressures, albeit intended for higher pressure irrigation applications!

This said, we’re focusing on the restrictive effect of a specific orifice diameter here, ignoring the frictional flow loss side of the equation (which can in-itself be mitigated by correctly sizing plumbing)

As an example, carburetor jets; a metered orifice of a given diameter, designed to allow a certain volume of liquid through at a certain pressure (or vacuum)… the jet sizes are swapped based on the stoichiometric needs of the given engine… (there is a know amount of force, the orifice diameter then meters flow)

 

[UncommonSense]

It may be possible to put the UV on the bottom of cabinet in front of the sump. I think it may just be narrow enough to fit.

What about orienting the UV vertically, in front of the sump? You already need to go down then back up with plumbing for a front-floor horizontal install, switching to vertical mounting just saves you both plumbing length/fittings, and stand floor space!

 

[DmitryB]

It may be possible to put the UV on the bottom of cabinet in front of the sump. I think it may just be narrow enough to fit.

Yep that's definitely another possibility. Though it would have to be elevated or let the plumbing go in on the bottom. (I bought a 3D printer (which I haven't taken out of the box yet!) so I could print a stand for the sterilizer.)

I just spoke to an IM rep and he said to explore possibility of using extra tension locks in the stand to suspend the UV from the top. There are various bars in the stand going across that hold it together and they're held together with tension locks. There are no designated places to put these bars. You just kind of eye ball it: that looks like center! IM sells the tension locks as spare parts. And you can add as many of these tension locks as you want basically. Im trying to figure out how these can hold the sterilizer. You can see in this photo of assembly instructions. All those bars are attached with tension locks.

 

[UncommonSense]

Im trying to figure out how these can hold the sterilizer

How about horizontal, top-center?

 

[DmitryB]

Im trying to figure out how these can hold the sterilizer

How about horizontal, top-center?

The tank is sitting on top of that. What could I use to suspend something from those bars? If IM sold extra bars, I could do something with that, but with the ones that are actually structurally necessary, I'm not sure.

 

[UncommonSense]

The tank is sitting on top of that. What could I use to suspend something from those bars? If IM sold extra bars, I could do something with that, but with the ones that are actually structurally necessary, I'm not sure.

Technically, every single bar is structurally necessary!

 

[DmitryB]

I was hoping they'd sell extra bars which could then be fiddled with. But they only sell extra tension locks.

 

[DmitryB]

I also just realized I'm not sure this UV will fit vertically with the plumbing in the stand. The UV is 32.5" long.

 

[UncommonSense]

I also just realized I'm not sure this UV will fit vertically with the plumbing in the stand. The UV is 32.5" long.

Ah! Yeah I was wondering about that, too.., it definitely won’t fit vertically!

That said, top framing mounted, or bottom-floor mounted in a horizontal position makes the most sense, then!

 

[Privateye]

This chart isn’t perfect, but is “good enough” for representing orifice flow rates at given pressures, albeit intended for higher pressure irrigation applications!

This said, we’re focusing on the restrictive effect of a specific orifice diameter here, ignoring the frictional flow loss side of the equation (which can in-itself be mitigated by correctly sizing plumbing)

Respectfully, if this chart is meant to display flow rates based on orifice size and pressure, then it is simply incorrect. Use any method you like to apply the same diameter and flow to a pipe 1' long (more friction than just an orifice) and from the pressure you will see the numbers on your chart are incorrect.

How can they be right though? They provide one flow rate for 20-100 PSI, for instance. Of course the flow rates would be vastly different within that range of pressures.

I found a calculator online that uses pressure and orifice diameter to determine water flow rate. It also disagrees with your table: https://toolbox.tlv.com/global/US/calculator/water-flow-rate-through-orifice.html

I might have found out why though - I also found that chart on one other website, and if that site is correct then this doesn't pertain to PVC pipe. It also includes a range of pipe lengths (which could explain the range of pressures):

I don't deal with steel pipe much, so I don't know if this is enough to explain the difference. Different materials do have different frictional coefficients though. Either way, I'm not arguing with your points about head pressure. The chart just has wrong numbers for this type of plumbing. It says the flow rates would be restricted a lot more than they actually would, which supports the manufacturer's design and claims.

 

[mmorrison55]

Wherever you decide to install it, think about ease of access for changing the bulb and cleaning the quartz sleeve.

 

[UncommonSense]

How can they be right though? They provide one flow rate for 20-100 PSI, for instance. Of course the flow rates would be vastly different within that range of pressures.

I wholeheartedly agree, hence specifying which section of the graph we’re focusing on when posting it!

so look in the green shaded section of the chart, <20psi

(I could have added that the green section of the above chart also represents the suction side of a pump, but that seemed beyond the scope of a intro level plumbing education, and I did specific that said chart isn’t perfectly accurate!)

I found a calculator online that uses pressure and orifice diameter to determine water flow rate. It also disagrees with your table: https://toolbox.tlv.com/global/US/calculator/water-flow-rate-through-orifice.html

Interesting… I input the exact same numbers in this calculator, and a different calculator, and got vastly different results…

>2,000GPH

<700GPH

5.8295PSI is the maximum line pressure the 1188GPH lifegard pump can produce, assuming max well of 13.1ft… nominal ID of 3/4” Sch. 40 PVC is .824”…

Alternative fluid flow rate calculator

I encourage you to time how long it takes to fill a 5G bucket via 3/4” sch.40 PVC plumbing and more or less any submersible aquarium pump to see which one of these calculators is closer to reality!

It says the flow rates would be restricted a lot more than they actually would, which supports the manufacturer's design and claims.

As above, I encourage you to test how much water you can pass through a 3/4” Sch.40 PVC pipe for yourself!

Or, you could reference one of the very frictional loss charts you’ve mentioned (which are also themselves intended for large runs of higher pressure plumbing!)

Note that the 3/4” category physically ends, even at much higher water pressures that any residential aquarium pump produces, before the 34GPM the calculator you presented claims 3/4” plumbing can achieve at <6PSI…