Ick treatment on sensitive fish

cody hendrix · Nov 16, 2017

I have gotten ick in my preditor tank. The fish include dwarf lion fish, marine beta, blue spotted Toby puffer, Lyretail Hogfish, flame angel, zebra eeland Saddleback Butterflyfish. I know normally dwarf angels and eels normally need to stay away from copper. I was thinking about Seachem Laboratories Cupramine as I have read that is a much safer form of copper. Do you think this would be fine with the sensitive fish in the tank? If not what would you suggest? I also would like to just treat the whole display tank. I have read that the cupramine does not sink into rock or sand. All you need to do is add carbon to pull it out after you treat and you should be good. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thank in advance.

Maritimer · Nov 16, 2017

I've brought a couple of dwarf angels (flame and coral beauty) through Coppersafe, but that eel is going to be a problem, as they are sensitive to copper and seem to stop eating for the duration of treatment, at least. Lionfish and puffers can also be sensitive to copper. Not certain, but possibly you could use Chloroquine Phosphate (CP) with that fellow? (The catch there is that pharmaceutical grade CP is only available by prescription in the US.) You might also consider "Tank Transfer Method" (TTM) - though it would require largish tanks for your crew.

There are two basic forms of copper used in the hobby; Ionic copper, of which Cupramine is the most popular brand name, and Chelated copper, such as Coppersafe. Both can be absorbed by liverock, and to a lesser extent, by sand as well. My understanding is that carbon removes ionic copper better than chelated copper, but isn't 100% efficient at removing either. (If the stuff is in your rock, it can leach out at random times...) Assuming you decide not to treat the display, it should remain "fallow" (no fish) for 76 days in order to ensure that all of the parasites have been starved out.

Melypr1985 has created a clear and concise chart of which methods (Ionic, chelated, CP or TTM) work best for treatment of ich in different types of fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648

~Bruce

cody hendrix · Nov 16, 2017

Maritimer said:
I've brought a couple of dwarf angels (flame and coral beauty) through Coppersafe, but that eel is going to be a problem, as they are sensitive to copper and seem to stop eating for the duration of treatment, at least. Lionfish and puffers can also be sensitive to copper. Not certain, but possibly you could use Chloroquine Phosphate (CP) with that fellow? (The catch there is that pharmaceutical grade CP is only available by prescription in the US.) You might also consider "Tank Transfer Method" (TTM) - though it would require largish tanks for your crew.

There are two basic forms of copper used in the hobby; Ionic copper, of which Cupramine is the most popular brand name, and Chelated copper, such as Coppersafe. Both can be absorbed by liverock, and to a lesser extent, by sand as well. My understanding is that carbon removes ionic copper better than chelated copper, but isn't 100% efficient at removing either. (If the stuff is in your rock, it can leach out at random times...) Assuming you decide not to treat the display, it should remain "fallow" (no fish) for 76 days in order to ensure that all of the parasites have been starved out.

Melypr1985 has created a clear and concise chart of which methods (Ionic, chelated, CP or TTM) work best for treatment of ich in different types of fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648

~Bruce

So I went and read the attached article. It looked like most things in my tank are going to be sensitive to copper. Unfortunately the tank transfer method is kinda out of the option, as you said I would need a few large tank to house's everything. So in this situation what would you do? I know fish can beat ick all the time as long as they are still active and eating. The only fish I have seen it on are the puffer the angel and hog. They are all still very active and eating. It is also only a few spots that I can see.

Maritimer · Nov 17, 2017

Fish can acquire a temporary immunity (about six months) to ich with low exposure - and that can keep rolling along, as long as they're in a tank with low levels of the parasite. It's called "ich management", and lots of aquarists do it. There are some fish which won't do well in an ich management tank, such as Acanthurus tangs, and adding new fish can be problematic, as they may not have built up that immunity.

The other option would be to see if you can find a veterinarian who'll prescribe CP for you. Not all will.

~Bruce

4FordFamily · Nov 17, 2017

I did fine with all angels and copper, some 60-75 of them by now. I don’t find them to be sensitive to it any more than any other fish.

Daniel cahen · Jun 27, 2018

Are fairy wrasses and fire goby sensitive to cupramine? I have some of themin my qt, I didn't yet see any white spot, but I have been told that it is better treat every fish as a preventive approach...so what is the safer concentration of cupramine to treat sensitive cooper fish like angels and fairy wrasses?