Ideal Turnover Rate

pandaparties

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
6,939
Reaction score
9,811
Location
phoenix
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I want to know everyones thoughts on what a good turnover rate is because I am seeing some wildly conflicting opinions both on here and LFS's. I see so many tanks running setups that are like 10x+ and lots of people saying thats ideal or even higher, but i've also heard from many people that the lower turnover (3x-5x) the better because it gives time for your rock/bacteria to do its thing and properly nitrify and that if your turnover is too hi you wont get proper biological filtration and that your flow should come from powerheads/wavemakers. I'm in the process of getting a 300g built and trying to figure out what my pump rate should be as well as my bulkhead size (animal bean setup)
 

Kazumi

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
86
Location
SW Ohio
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It seems that the current thinking is 3-5 times through the sump controlled by your return pump, and in-tank "turnover" of around 10 or more controlled by your favorite powerheads.

Back many years ago, I ran 10 times through the sump, as that was the thinking 10+ years ago.
 
OP
OP
pandaparties

pandaparties

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
6,939
Reaction score
9,811
Location
phoenix
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It seems that the current thinking is 3-5 times through the sump controlled by your return pump, and in-tank "turnover" of around 10 or more controlled by your favorite powerheads.

Back many years ago, I ran 10 times through the sump, as that was the thinking 10+ years ago.
See that's what i've been hearing as well and what I was thinking for mine, but then just look at the response above yours and it seems so common on setups here for people to be running 20x+
 

SPR1968

No, it wasn’t expensive dear....
View Badges
Joined
Feb 21, 2017
Messages
20,028
Reaction score
124,588
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Theres turnover through the sump/filtration systems, and then display circulation

In my large system I have a single Abyzz a200 which turns the water through the sump over around 3-4 x. I don’t want water rushing through the filtration so nice and slow. It also feeds a UVC and reactor so the flows reduced

Now in the display I have 2 MP60s and 1 MP40 on maximum power so they provide a great deal of water movement in the display

I believe the 10x comes from the triton method from memory so it all depends what your trying to achieve
 

zalick

A cup of water and a dash of salt
View Badges
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
1,853
Location
Portland
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It really depends on the "type" of flow IMO. On the majority of reefs where our fish and coral live, The ocean tides slowly move in with a little surging back and forth. Then slowly move out. Not anywhere near the velocity we have in our tanks. This is from my personal experience diving reefs all over the world. There are exceptions of course, but those coral walls where you drift dive dont have the same fish...

I prefer to try and mimic this motion, tough as it may be. I've run tanks anywhere from 10x to 100x to achieve this effect.

For my sump, I run between 3x and 4x through it for the reasons @SPR1968 mentioned.
 

neeper

New Member
View Badges
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I just calculated the turnover rate for my Red Sea Max S-500, it's display to sump turnover is 13.7x.

Why is the main return pump so powerful?
 

polyppal

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
3,151
Reaction score
6,214
Location
Denver
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The idea of turnover involving your return pump is pretty outdated. Most reefers these days shoot for 3-5x turnover from the sump to the tank, enough to ensure that heated filtered water is being exchanged efficiently. Going higher than that isnt going to hurt anything, besides making your plumbing louder and costing more. Don't take that return pump GPH into consideration on your actual display tanks flow, (use powerheads for that)
 

RocketEngineer

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
940
Reaction score
1,016
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Nope. Just keep in mind that the goal of sump turnover is to exchange enough water between the display and sump to keep water chemistry/temperature the same in both. 1X might do this in some systems, even .5X if the display is big enough. It’s not something that’s set in stone. As long as the two boxes of water have the same chemistry and temperature, it’s enough exchange to do the job.
 

PBar

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
283
Reaction score
339
Location
BE
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m a bit surprised with my own numbers, since I‘m already planning to increase my display flow :)
Turnover: 2x
Display: 195x

Before anyone asks, no soft coral of course...

Maybe they were soft... after so much flow... they became hard :)
 

mike550

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
2,375
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Newbie follow up question. How do you calculate turnover between tank and sump? For example, I have a 120G tank (let’s say 100G of water). I’m running a Vectra M2 return pump which is currently set at 70%. The max stated flow is 2000GPH. So 70% would be 1400GPH. Do I really have 14X turnover?

I‘m guessing that there’s some flow reduction due to head pressure — but not much.

So do I have too much turnover?
 

zalick

A cup of water and a dash of salt
View Badges
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
1,853
Location
Portland
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Newbie follow up question. How do you calculate turnover between tank and sump? For example, I have a 120G tank (let’s say 100G of water). I’m running a Vectra M2 return pump which is currently set at 70%. The max stated flow is 2000GPH. So 70% would be 1400GPH. Do I really have 14X turnover?

I‘m guessing that there’s some flow reduction due to head pressure — but not much.

So do I have too much turnover?
I use the flow chart most pump makers provide.

Depends on your goals. I like slower flow through the sump so detritus settles there and I can easily remove it. I'm at about 2x right now (sump + DT vol). So 14x is too much for me, but I know others who run sumps in that range...
 

X-37B

Fight the Good Fight
View Badges
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
9,011
Reaction score
15,634
Location
Outer Limits
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
In my 120 I run around 300 gph through my sump.
So 3X throughput.
In my display which is mostly sticks I run around 9000gph through 2 constant powerheads and 2 that alternate every 10 seconds for a total of 4 powerheads.
Display flow is around 80X display volume.
 

JCM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
1,646
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Newbie follow up question. How do you calculate turnover between tank and sump? For example, I have a 120G tank (let’s say 100G of water). I’m running a Vectra M2 return pump which is currently set at 70%. The max stated flow is 2000GPH. So 70% would be 1400GPH. Do I really have 14X turnover?

I‘m guessing that there’s some flow reduction due to head pressure — but not much.

So do I have too much turnover?

You lose a significant amount from the head pressure.
 

mike550

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
2,375
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You lose a significant amount from the head pressure.
@JCM thanks for that. At first I didn’t think I’d lose a lot but I was able to find a flow/head curve and for 5’ of head it’s around 1400. So even at 70% I’m at 980 gph. So even still I’m around 9-10X for tank turnover.

I guess what I’ve really learned is that if I wanted to turn down my return pump to see if things quiet down I could
 

JCM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
1,646
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@JCM thanks for that. At first I didn’t think I’d lose a lot but I was able to find a flow/head curve and for 5’ of head it’s around 1400. So even at 70% I’m at 980 gph. So even still I’m around 9-10X for tank turnover.

I guess what I’ve really learned is that if I wanted to turn down my return pump to see if things quiet down I could

No problem. 25-50% head loss is normal for home aquariums. If things are too noisy, definitely try turning down the return pump. 9-10x turnover is fine, but so is 3-5x.
 

BradB

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
563
Reaction score
327
Location
Hudson
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Many corals have much more flow than we can provide, the water in such a small volume would leave the tank. So enough Tunze powerheads or similar you don't need heaters is probably ideal for them. But then we keep some corals that would just be torn to shreds and animals like clams that just would be ticked. So ideal is the most flow possible that doesn't serious negatively affect what you want to keep. This could be over 100x for an Acropora only tank or under 10x for delicate LPS.
 
Back
Top