If there were no environmental concerns I'd prefer wild collected corals or at the very least maricultured and here's why:

[Spartan76]

I think you're kidding yourself that you're going to get something truly unique. Unless you yourself are going out to the reefs in the more remote parts of the pacific or you are very well connected with someone in the collecting industry, there is little chance that that unique piece reaches you. And if you do by some spectacular twist of fate you were to get such a piece, you had better have the skillset and experience to take care of it - and share frags of it - or in the end you are just destroying that unique item. You can have a superb "unique" tank by patiently hunting down some of the less often seen aquacultured specimens in the hobby. There is no need to pluck from the ocean anymore.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think you're kidding yourself that you're going to get something truly unique. Unless you yourself are going out to the reefs in the more remote parts of the pacific or you are very well connected with someone in the collecting industry, there is little chance that that unique piece reaches you. And if you do by some spectacular twist of fate you were to get such a piece, you had better have the skillset and experience to take care of it - and share frags of it - or in the end you are just destroying that unique item. You can have a superb "unique" tank by patiently hunting down some of the less often seen aquacultured specimens in the hobby. there is need to pluck from the ocean anymore.

I addressed the environmental concern first of all and second I don't think you read anything on the thread or you would have seen the many times I wrote that it's not about rarity. Do shapes I feel to be unique count or no...?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think you're kidding yourself that you're going to get something truly unique. Unless you yourself are going out to the reefs in the more remote parts of the pacific or you are very well connected with someone in the collecting industry, there is little chance that that unique piece reaches you. And if you do by some spectacular twist of fate you were to get such a piece, you had better have the skillset and experience to take care of it - and share frags of it - or in the end you are just destroying that unique item. You can have a superb "unique" tank by patiently hunting down some of the less often seen aquacultured specimens in the hobby. There is no need to pluck from the ocean anymore.

What would be truly unique by your standards?

 

[soreefed]

No, it's because there nothing different about them and they pretty much are clones! Do you not understand that I don't care who has the same coral species as me? You never answered about the sun coral btw...I love it and feel it's unique because it's NPS and I just like it. Is that out of reach and unreasonable for you because there werent identical pieces beside it?

you are greatly contradicting yourself and I have made the points id like to make. Have a good day.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

you are greatly contradicting yourself and I have made the points id like to make. Have a good day.

I hope someday you can understand others' points of view. I won't try to one up you. You can feel victorious. Enjoy your day. Don't do anything out of the ordinary though.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I enjoy hearing you guys' thoughts...please just try to see things from different points of view. I know sometimes when you hear a post like this it sounds as if someone can never be satisfied but that isn't what I'm saying at all. I thought the one guy would understand the analogy about my tank being art to me and like every artist you want every aspect to express what you feel it should. In reefing to me it's picking out a piece I see as unique...it seemed to be misunderstood that unique could mean many things other than exceedingly rare. I want my art to express what I want it to and I'd prefer to have a wide variety of building blocks to choose from. One of my favorite corals is a black sun coral... honestly. They are incredibly unique to me and always have been. However if every piece had the same number of polyps and was a literal clone I wouldn't feel as excited when picking out that piece that's special to me. Anyone here can have one of my favorite corals in the world. It's probably not unique to you but it is to me.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Long live sustainable well regulated wild collection of coral!

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

But if there’s twenty next to each other at a shop then it’s not unique? Two you can buy but twenty nooo too many reefers will buy that after me.

I think you are arguing just to argue or playing "Devils Advocate" and there is nothing wrong with that, it makes people think about their choices.
I agree where @livinlifeinBKK is coming from, but we are both very much live rock people. It is more about the discovery of life than the collection of certain lifeforms. In my temperate tank I have many a creature that I have grown from zooplankton, that came off of collected kelp and macro algae. Including a Bat Seastar that is now the size of my palm that grew from nothing. This sea star which is pretty common just a few blocks away from me is worth more than any JF or WWC coral.
I would take a brown ugly duckling acro frag over a known coral just to see what it grows into. I have Zoa rocks that I got at box stores that didn’t even have proper lighting, if they even would turn them on at all. I didn’t know how they would turn out. Most are common, some have no name and are bland, Some are beautiful but are far from "krack kid zoas" or what ever. But to me they are all amazing because they are unique to me and my tanks.
There is a difference in curating a slice of the ocean and curating a "pretty" reef tank. Because by natural selection "brown and unique" just doesn’t sell. What most reefers have available to them is aquacultured clones of shiny objects. Just to be fair I have plenty of shiny objects in my tropical tanks. @livinlifeinBKK has a unique opportunity that most of us do not have, in that by his location, he has more diversity in his choices and I can not fault him for that.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think you are arguing just to argue or playing "Devils Advocate" and there is nothing wrong with that, it makes people think about their choices.
I agree where @livinlifeinBKK is coming from, but we are both very much live rock people. It is more about the discovery of life than the collection of certain lifeforms. In my temperate tank I have many a creature that I have grown from zooplankton, that came off of collected kelp and macro algae. Including a Bat Seastar that is now the size of my palm that grew from nothing. This sea star which is pretty common just a few blocks away from me is worth more than any JF or WWC coral.
I would take a brown ugly duckling acro frag over a known coral just to see what it grows into. I have Zoa rocks that I got at box stores that didn’t even have proper lighting, if they even would turn them on at all. I didn’t know how they would turn out. Most are common, some have no name and are bland, Some are beautiful but are far from "krack kid zoas" or what ever. But to me they are all amazing because they are unique to me and my tanks.
There is a difference in curating a slice of the ocean and curating a "pretty" reef tank. Because by natural selection "brown and unique" just doesn’t sell. What most reefers have available to them is aquacultured clones of shiny objects. Just to be fair I have plenty of shiny objects in my tropical tanks. @livinlifeinBKK has a unique opportunity that most of us do not have, in that by his location, he has more diversity in his choices and I can not fault him for that.

Thanks! I think you really hit it on the head with what you said!

 

[Nano_Man]

If you could look back at most corals family tree they all stem from wild corals . In the early nineties you where very close to if not 100% wild corals on a big lump of live rock . Theses days really people don’t shout at me but we are helping the environment so they say but the frag carry on is scraps of large corals but the same price as large corals but if people are buying them the prices keep going up supply and demand. Things are going mad in the hobby. They will eventually ban everything coming out the oceans all together and every single thing in the hobby will be captive bred corals/ fish / critters. This is my opinion

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If you could look back at most corals family tree they all stem from wild corals . In the early nineties you where very close to if not 100% wild corals on a big lump of live rock . Theses days really people don’t shout at me but we are helping the environment so they say but the frag carry on is scraps of large corals but the same price as large corals but if people are buying them the prices keep going up supply and demand. Things are going mad in the hobby. They will eventually ban everything coming out the oceans all together and every single thing in the hobby will be captive bred corals/ fish / critters. This is my opinion

I mean, it's possible but I don't see it happening for the next 80 years at least so not overly worried about that

 

[Nano_Man]

I mean, it's possible but I don't see it happening for the next 80 years at least so not overly worried about that

That’s ok then
I will be dead then and my daughter takes over the tanks lol
And if we really are protecting the environment then eventually the ban will come but I probably won’t see it . I used to buy wild caught discus in the late 80s but I would say 90% now are captive bred if not more.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

That’s ok then
I will be dead then and my daughter takes over the tanks lol
And if we really are protecting the environment then eventually the ban will come but I probably won’t see it . I used to buy wild caught discus in the late 80s but I would say 90% now are captive bred if not more.

I don't think CITES is a joke or all the studies supporting sustainable collection are forged. It's possible they're all lies but I really doubt it...

 

[Reefer Matt]

I believe part of what the op is referring to is genetically "unique" coral. When you frag coral, they are clones and have the same genetic traits. This could be bad or good.

Through sexual reproduction, as in nature, you get more "unique" as in not cloned, coral. Think of it like this. You buy some zoas and they melt. You then assume ALL those kind of zoas will melt. However, if you tried a different strain from a different vendor, you may find that they work out for you. Coral in your immediate area are often genetically the same, as they have been fragged multiple times.
And of course, there are exceptions to this as in everything, but I believe this is part of the message in this post. Note this is all my opinion, and based off of my experience.

 

[Nano_Man]

They have just done a study on fish in the uk wild caught out of the sea . The found fish containing anti depression and pain killers and because of sewage leaking into are seas also protecting the environment dragging chain nets across the sea bed destroying everything on the sea bottom only to collect scallops so are theses agencies that good really about protecting the environment. Also fish quoters once’s you have caught your amount of cod every time you pull your nets in after that your net could be full ofcod and they are to be landed and then dumped into the sea and most fish are dead or very damaged. This was a eu rule from other countries for are country also we have people unable to feed there family’s and starving kids and we are throwing good healthy fish to the bottom of the sea by the tons but remember we are protecting the environment come on there a joke a times

 

[Sump Crab]

I agree OP. When most corals were wild in LFS it was always exciting to see what came in. Now the LFS has 90% of the same old boring stuff that is in everyone’s tank and the 9% of the “super fire dope” $$$ rich person coral and then maybe 1% of some cool, interesting, and yes UNIQUE piece that found its way in.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

They have just done a study on fish in the uk wild caught out of the sea . The found fish containing anti depression and pain killers and because of sewage leaking into are seas also protecting the environment dragging chain nets across the sea bed destroying everything on the sea bottom only to collect scallops so are theses agencies that good really about protecting the environment. Also fish quoters once’s you have caught your amount of cod every time you pull your nets in after that your net could be full ofcod and they are to be landed and then dumped into the sea and most fish are dead or very damaged. This was a eu rule from other countries for are country also we have people unable to feed there family’s and starving kids and we are throwing good healthy fish to the bottom of the sea by the tons but remember we are protecting the environment come on there a joke a times

This is so off topic it's the joke...why don't you start your own thread about there existing corruption and bad things that happen as well as beneficial things. Maybe there's someone out there unaware of this. I refuse to argue back and forth on this beyond saying that we produce far more food than humans need to eat. There's not a shortage of global food production vs total population. This is just too much off topic to even start on.

 

[John K]

Huh, I remember well when nearly all available corals were “unique”, wild collected. Uniquely brown getting browner, uniquely beige, uniquely RTNing, uniquely failing to adapt to captivity, and occasionally adjusting well over time and growing into very special “poop brown” sticks that would seem to out grow everything else. Nothing like picking out a lovely pink acro colony only to watch it turn to a completely different color, fail to thrive, and then die one way or another.

I do see value in the near mono-culture of corals that have proven to adapt to captivity, maintain attractive colors, appealing growth forms, and not die. I actually think it’s pretty darn cool to be able to have attractive corals grow and more or less thrive in my fish tank, even if my peers have mostly the same stuff.

And yes husbandry has evolved and improved Giving greater chances at success with wild collected colonies. That and if you think wild collected colonies would be the bees knees of diversity and success, I suspect you are underestimating the challenges and drawbacks.

 

[Nano_Man]

This is so off topic it's the joke...why don't you start your own thread about there existing corruption and bad things that happen as well as beneficial things. Maybe there's someone out there unaware of this. I refuse to argue back and forth on this beyond saying that we produce far more food than humans need to eat. There's not a shortage of global food production vs total population. This is just too much off topic to even start on.

This is so off topic it's the joke...why don't you start your own thread about there existing corruption and bad things that happen as well as beneficial things. Maybe there's someone out there unaware of this. I refuse to argue back and forth on this beyond saying that we produce far more food than humans need to eat. There's not a shortage of global food production vs total population. This is just too much off topic to even start on.

Tell you what report me for tell you the truth
Buy your corals from a shop like every one else but don’t preach about following protection about the environment and yes it’s off topic but a open your eyes too a bigger picture or are you just a tunnel vision guy . Press on your report button if you can see it in your tunnel and remember to ask for @revhtree

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Tell you what report me for tell you the truth
Buy your corals from a shop like every one else but don’t preach about following protection about the environment and yes it’s off topic but a open your eyes too a bigger picture or are you just a tunnel vision guy . Press on your report button if you can see it in your tunnel and remember to ask for @revhtree

I don't care enough about your comment to report you. rev has probably seen you tagged him and though it was such a waste of time checking why you were so upset. You admitted it was off topic yourself. How about we stay on topic here. Thanks for starting a rant thread about the EPA instead.