I'm a two part failure! Help me switch over to a calcium reactor?

[Shredded]

OK, so I have tried and tried and tried for going on 2 years now and I can't seem to get a balanced stable reef using two part. I can't blame it on anything but myself. I have every piece of equipment you can buy (within reason) and still everything will be going fine and next thing i know my calcium is 580 (today) or my alk jumps a point. Corals that are growing, are growing slow and I would say growing periodically, like I hit that sweet spot, things start growing, I notice it, and think finally, and then it stops and something is out of wack. I have certain corals for over a year and they are still alive but I would not say thriving. Then some will seem to be growing and doing well and then start to slowly die from the tips as the algae takes hold. I have included some pics of the tank to give you an idea. I think I have reached my breaking point with 2 part and I want to switch over to a calcium reactor. I will give you a quick list of the tank. I tried to provide everything up front rather then going back and forth to get the full picture so I apologize if this is overkill.
300 Gallon DD Total water capacity with the sump, 300 gallons
Sea Water mix. ESV B-ionic
Water Changes - 25 gallons per week (one gallon at a time evenly spread out over the full week)
Automated water top off - Specific gravity maintained at 1.026
Correctly sized protein skimmer
Nitrate - 5 ppm (very stable) Red Sea Pro and Salifert
Phosphate - .06 ppm (very stable) Hanna, Red Sea Pro and Salifert
Alkalinity - 8.2 dKH (Dosed and controlled daily, GHL KH Director, Tested - Hanna
Calcium - 585 today (Dosed daily) (shut off dosing for now), Tested - Red Sea Pro and Hanna
Magnesium - 1350, (Dosed daily - stable) Tested - Red Sea Pro and Salifert
Temperature 76.8 - 77.1 daily (Extremely stable)

I already have all the equipment (New, unused) to convert over to the calcium reactor. I would only need to fill the primary and back up tanks with CO2 to start. This scares me. Has anyone done this and not caused an alkalinity swing? If there is a procedure somewhere to do this I cannot find it. My goal is to switch over to the Calcium Reactor (Vertex RX-C 6D with Carbon Doser valve) as the primary and use two part for any fine adjustment. For those of you not familiar with the KH Director it has control for a calcium reactor as well as dosers but you can't do both, one way or the other. Some pics below. Any help is appreciated.

Lighting 4 - AI Hydra HD 52s (set up below)

 

[Hitman]

I have no experience with a calcium reactor but I would like to ask how much tank flow you have from gyres/powerheads? From what I see in your pictures those corals all like strong flow. Your levels all look good other then today's Ca oops so if it's not flow related I would recommend getting a ICP test done just to see if your water is missing something. Mine was missing I & MN and on e I started dosing them my corals took off like crazy.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

A couple of comments. If your alkalinity is changing rapidly, there's something wrong with your equipment (perhaps the KH Director?). Tanks don't just rapidly change their alkalinity consumption. The second comment is that alkalinity and calcium aren't always consumed in a 1:1 ratio in a tank, so if your dosing is based on that (a 1:1 ratio), that may explain why your calcium is so high.

The bottom line is that switching to a calcium reactor is probably not going to help, although it will help you re-balance the sulfate/chloride ratio in the water, as 25 gallons a week in a 300g tank may not be enough.

 

[Shredded]

@Hitman... I have 4 XF-250 Gyres. I actually have to turn them down as they will turn the tank into a sand storm. I would like to buy 2 of the AI Nero 5s to hit a couple of low flow areas.
Now funny you should ask. I actually sent an ICP test off last week (I have no idea why I waited this long as I have looked at them over the counter for 6 months) and this morning I had my results. This may be more then my two part as I once thought. At the risk of embarrassing myself I have created a link and will share the results....
Main Tank
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/b2fe9d16336b1627aa11
RO/DI Water
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/1bf11760e99ace301e6c

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[Shredded]

@Dkeller_nc... Yes sir, I had a reagent problem at one point and by the time I caught it, it had gone up a point. And I guess that was what I was hoping to get better at. I am not dosing 1:1 and calcium is dosing higher. I have been reading a lot of Randy's articles on the subject to get a grasp on this. This is what led me down the path of thinking that since the calcium reactor delivers in the correct ratio and plus the added trace elements (I have 2 bags of Two Little Fishies Reborn) that this might be a better path for me since I seem to be an idiot when it comes to dialing this in. If you get a chance, review my ICP results above? In view of the ICP results, would the calcium reactor have also eliminated the discrepancies in the tests or would additional supplements still be required.
Thanks in advance!
Jeff

 

[Jdavison911]

I just went over to a CaRx on my 300DD with 500 total gallons. Its not that hard especially with the Kh Director. I have the same unit with 2 additional slave dosing units. The one mistake I made was trying to feed the reactor off my manifold, this was a pita as drip rate would change throughout the day. I have since added the Kamoer FX-STP pump. Im still fine tuning but getting there. Im running my carx through my Apex so I am able to make Ph adjustments as needed remotely. I did my weekly water change (30 gallons) yesterday and testing with everything being where I like it. I did have a small alk spike when I went over to the Kamoer but nothing major (7.9 to 8.5). Once I get the Kh back down to 7.9 I will run a ICP test to make sure everything is ok. One thing I did do is left my dosing pumps with Alk and Ca set up so if I needed to dose some Alk I could until things settled out dialing in the reactor.

 

[Hitman]

@Hitman... I have 4 XF-250 Gyres. I actually have to turn them down as they will turn the tank into a sand storm. I would like to buy 2 of the AI Nero 5s to hit a couple of low flow areas.
Now funny you should ask. I actually sent an ICP test off last week (I have no idea why I waited this long as I have looked at them over the counter for 6 months) and this morning I had my results. This may be more then my two part as I once thought. At the risk of embarrassing myself I have created a link and will share the results....
Main Tank
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/b2fe9d16336b1627aa11
RO/DI Water
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/1bf11760e99ace301e6c

Thanks!
Jeff

Just like mine. Time for some I & Mn dosing sir. Looks like your in need of strontium as well otherwise your levels look good. Personally I bought the ATI additives from marinedepot.com so I could dose exactly like the instructions said and I saw a big difference in just a few days with my SPS.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

@Dkeller_nc... Yes sir, I had a reagent problem at one point and by the time I caught it, it had gone up a point. And I guess that was what I was hoping to get better at. I am not dosing 1:1 and calcium is dosing higher. I have been reading a lot of Randy's articles on the subject to get a grasp on this. This is what led me down the path of thinking that since the calcium reactor delivers in the correct ratio and plus the added trace elements (I have 2 bags of Two Little Fishies Reborn) that this might be a better path for me since I seem to be an idiot when it comes to dialing this in. If you get a chance, review my ICP results above? In view of the ICP results, would the calcium reactor have also eliminated the discrepancies in the tests or would additional supplements still be required.
Thanks in advance!
Jeff

Your levels are fine, though perhaps a bit high on the calcium side of things. What matters is that it's consistent, day to day, week to week, month to month. Presuming that your KH Director is functioning correctly, that shouldn't be too hard to achieve. And a calcium reactor is unlikely to help with that, because it's just another piece of equipment that must be running correctly to keep things stable.

 

[Hitman]

I agree with @Dkeller_nc on the Ca reactor. Get the 3 trace elements you are lacking brought back up, and your Ca down. Then take a big breath regroup and get everything reset. Test your Ca and Alk daily or every other day to make sure they are where you want them and test your mg weekly or by-weekly. After a month of doing this ( yes I know it's way more then needed but it works ) then put your trust back in you DH Director.

 

[Shredded]

Thank you! OK, so here is what i have done so far.
The only supplement that I had was a new bottle of Red Sea Coral Color A - Iodine, Bromine and Fluorine supplement. I used the Red Sea test kit to check my Iodine which came in low at .03. ( have no idea how to convert from their measurement to the ATI report) but logically if I bring it back to specs by the Red Sea kit, then I should be in the ball park for the ATI report. No one locally had a Strontium supplement so I have ordered one and it should arrive today. And, not sure why this didn't occur to me, but I had 50 gallons of freshly mixed ESV seawater and so I kicked off a 24 hour, 50 gallon water change. I will order 3 more boxes of salt which should arrive by Thursday. I intend to do 3 more 50 gallon water changes every couple of days for a total of something less then 200 gallons. (I use the Genesis Renew for automatic water changes and it changes 1 gallon at a time evenly spaced over your chosen interval, so therefore, technically, each time you change a gallon, you get a small part of the previous gallons changed)
The plan to move to the calcium reactor is on hold!

 

[SeaDweller]

CaRx is the best thing for stability for me and IMO. But at this point it’ll maintain that alk and high calcium you have.

Have you tried NOT dosing calcium and just alk, and letting the Ca fall by itself? Once you get the Ca in line to where you want it, that’s where I’d fire the CaRx up.

Also are you testing the parameters of your WC water?

 

[Shredded]

@TitanCi Yes, right now, I have stopped dosing Calcium and I'm letting it fall, checking it every other day.
I use ESV B-Ionic 4 part, and pretty much mixes up pretty close each and every time. See below. One of the reasons I really like this salt. On a side note, I dose Alk, cal, and mag. I have 2 new gallons of Two Little Fishies C Balance and have been considering switching over to eliminate the mag. I have been told that what I am using is not a balanced two part. Today, I want to say that things look better after my changes but that could be wishful thinking on my part.
Salinity 35.5 ppt
Calcium - 440ppm
Alkalinity -8.8
Magnesium - 1390ppm
Temp 77

 

[Shredded]

All,
So an update on my issues. I went ahead and added everything necessary to begin using the calcium reactor. It literally only requires two valves to be opened and a knob turned to fire it up. I have not implemented it yet and don't know if i will.
@Dkeller_nc, I addressed the issues identified on my ATI test with what I had at the moment but also ordered the ATI supplements from BRS. I was just freaking out about my corals dying and wanted to mitigate as best I could as fast as i could. I dosed with Red Sea Trace Colors A, that contains Iodine, Bromine and Fluorine using the Red Sea Coral colors test kit as the measurements were different. I said previously that I thought things looked better the next day. It was not my imagination, the recession stopped. There was some damage but you could see where the raw edge of the coral flesh rounded off. Color has begun to come back and growth tips have returned on many corals. I didn't dose any strontium. I didn't have any, but after some research, I was confused enough, I wouldn't have dosed any anyway. I guess there are many opinions out there from, it's not necessary for corals (there are apparently other organisms that use it), and its only used because the molecule is similar to calcium all the way to "it's a poison". So anyway, the disaster seemed mitigated without and i would let water changes bring that back up. I mixed up a 50 gallon batch of fresh sea water and set the Genesis Renew to change out 48 gallons in 24 hours. (out of all my equipment, best money ever spent) I have done this twice now and have a 3rd batch mixed and ready to go for tonight. 50% water change over a 2 week period. I tested iodine again last night. Still appeared a little low so I bumped it up a little more. ALK is again stable on the KH Director and all seems well. Full water tests tomorrow night but it looks like ATI tests every other month from now on to stay on top of it.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m saying this with a LOT of caution but I have yet to find solid reasoning to stop dosing kalkwasser even if it’s not keeping up at saturation.... I’m unaware of any side effects like salinity issues or whatever if combined with 2 part,,,,Must be a reason people stop dosing Kalk but I never heard a compelling reason to stop

 

[Dkeller_nc]

All,
So an update on my issues. I went ahead and added everything necessary to begin using the calcium reactor. It literally only requires two valves to be opened and a knob turned to fire it up. I have not implemented it yet and don't know if i will.
@Dkeller_nc, I addressed the issues identified on my ATI test with what I had at the moment but also ordered the ATI supplements from BRS. I was just freaking out about my corals dying and wanted to mitigate as best I could as fast as i could. I dosed with Red Sea Trace Colors A, that contains Iodine, Bromine and Fluorine using the Red Sea Coral colors test kit as the measurements were different. I said previously that I thought things looked better the next day. It was not my imagination, the recession stopped. There was some damage but you could see where the raw edge of the coral flesh rounded off. Color has begun to come back and growth tips have returned on many corals. I didn't dose any strontium. I didn't have any, but after some research, I was confused enough, I wouldn't have dosed any anyway. I guess there are many opinions out there from, it's not necessary for corals (there are apparently other organisms that use it), and its only used because the molecule is similar to calcium all the way to "it's a poison". So anyway, the disaster seemed mitigated without and i would let water changes bring that back up. I mixed up a 50 gallon batch of fresh sea water and set the Genesis Renew to change out 48 gallons in 24 hours. (out of all my equipment, best money ever spent) I have done this twice now and have a 3rd batch mixed and ready to go for tonight. 50% water change over a 2 week period. I tested iodine again last night. Still appeared a little low so I bumped it up a little more. ALK is again stable on the KH Director and all seems well. Full water tests tomorrow night but it looks like ATI tests every other month from now on to stay on top of it.

Good to hear, nothing's more heartbreaking than watching all of your corals slowly turn into coral soup. It's possible that a severe lack of trace elements might've started the scenario, but for most of us that have a substantial amount of fish in the tank, fish food adds about all that we need. But there are very, very few reefers that ever turn their noses up at water changes when problems arise. Perhaps GlennF might (the originator of "Dutch Synthetic Reefing" - zero water changes), but most of us think of it as a necessary evil.

 

[Bmw015]

I just want to ask for a clarification. You mentioned you have an auto top off maintained at a specific gravity of 1.026.

You have fresh water in the ATO that maintains your salinity at 1.026, correct? Not that you have saltwater in your ato. Just want to be certain. [emoji3]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To be honest, I can't think of a reason that a CaCo3/Co2 reactor will produce more stable conditions than a properly dosed two part that is not constantly adjusted based on the inherent variability of alk and calcium readings. Over adjusting is a problem for reefers.

 

[Shredded]

I just want to ask for a clarification. You mentioned you have an auto top off maintained at a specific gravity of 1.026.

You have fresh water in the ATO that maintains your salinity at 1.026, correct? Not that you have saltwater in your ato. Just want to be certain. [emoji3]

Yes sorry, I have an auto top off unit (Genesis Storm) that constantly tops off with RO/DI water only. Now, my KH Director measures 8 times per day, 100 ml samples. That's a little over 51/2 liters per week so to prevent salinity drift, using a free dosing head, I replace those 100 ml samples back after each test. It seems to work as I rarely measure higher or lower then 1.026.

 

[Shredded]

To be honest, I can't think of a reason that a CaCo3/Co2 reactor will produce more stable conditions than a properly dosed two part that is not constantly adjusted based on the inherent variability of alk and calcium readings. Over adjusting is a problem for reefers.

Hi Randy! I was hoping you might extend your expertise. So... you are saying that with the calcium reactor, it is not inherently more stable then automatically dosing two part? I had thought that with the calcium reactor always dosing the correct ratio that would follow. I had read that most of the large coral growers use them on their grow out tanks. Is there no real reason for that? And lastly, I am dosing Sodium Carbonate, Calcium Chloride Dihydrate, and (Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate, and Magnesium Sulfate Anhydrous) but with a calcium reactor do you not get the benefit of everything that goes into building the coral structure while using something like Two Little Fishies, Reborn? I am sure you have answered this a thousand times over. Point me to some reading?
Thanks for your time!
Jeff

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Not Randy, but I think I can answer why folks with bigger tanks tend to have calcium reactors. One reason is that with a big tank and massive coral growth, a ton of 2-part solutions have to be dosed. I'm not sure that it would be any different on amount dosed/tank volume basis, but there's a certain PITA factor if you're having to dose a liter a day of alk & Ca in a 500 gallon tank. Another reason why calc reactors would predominate in big tanks is simply that it's pretty tough to implement them in much smaller tanks. In theory a calcium reactor could be scaled down to any size, but in practice most of the models available would be way over sized for a 40 - 60 gallon tank.