I'm done w/Tangs....

[Tamberav]

The other fish are not new and being bullied, not under stress. Clowns and wrasse and such have survive complete velvet wipeouts. My friend lost every fish in his tank (mostly Tangs as he likes Tangs too) to velvet except all his leopard wrasses just cruising around like nothing going on.

Yes, the fish coming in these days are sometimes not in great shape but it is certainly possible to keep them with proper QT protocols.

I recently set up a invert QT. it is basically a fishless frag tank where inverts hang out for 45 days at 81 degrees before moving them to the DT. It is another tank but even Jay stated recently that the hobby is worse then ever for fish health/disease... so it seems this is the direction we are going if we don't want losses.

I did ich management for 10 years but recently decided to QT instead for the next upgrade. No regrets so far. The hobby is changing and sometimes ya have to change with it. What worked before might not work now.

This is a good read:

Ich and Acanthurus tangs - Years of experience and ich management

Alright folks I wanted to share some pretty shameful realities about my past and dealing with Acanthurus tangs. To anyone that doesn't know, common Acanthurus tangs include Powder Blue, Powder Brown, Goldrim/white cheek, Achilles, Sohal, Clown...

www.reef2reef.com

Ultimately it is up to you... you can keep tossing in Tangs and hoping you will get a better outcome and maybe you will find one that is resilient enough. You can stop keeping Tangs all together or try something new like peroxide dosing, or better oxygen or better foods, or you can QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

That is strange. Sorry to hear of struggles
What test kits are you using ?
I wonder if you are getting any false readings, mainly salinity-ammonia- nitrate And ph ??

I had similar challenges a few years back to find my salinity was 1.032 and Not the 1.025 false readings I was getting

 

[laverda]

sailfin is new, my previous tangs were yellow, lavender, bristletooth, powder blue. Never anything over 5-6 inches

But literally no other fish have ever shown signs of ich, just the tangs that are new that ultimately die of starvation/bullying

Clearly they are not starving in 2 days. Harassment may contribute but they are dieing from other causes. If the tang was real aggressive you would see wounds on the other fish from there scaples.

 

[Fishyfish22]

I had similar challenges a few years back to find my salinity was 1.032 and Not the 1.025 false readings I was getting

This happened to me too, I was confused about why the fish and inverts I was adding would die within a day. Turned out my salinity was 1.30, so they were going from the 1.20 that the LFS keep them at straight to 1.30 and dying in a day or two. Now I recalibrate every 2 weeks as well as have more than one method of testing. I also qt now so salinity difference is never an issue.

The older fish didn't care because they'd already been adjusting to the salinity as it climbed.

Could be this in addition to ich.

 

[amcvay]

That is strange. Sorry to hear of struggles
What test kits are you using ?
I wonder if you are getting any false readings, mainly salinity-ammonia- nitrate And ph ??

I had similar challenges a few years back to find my salinity was 1.032 and Not the 1.025 false readings I was getting

I use hannah tests for Alk/Phos/Calc, a refractometer for salt and Red Sea Pro for Nitrate/Magnesium

 

[amcvay]

Clearly they are not starving in 2 days. Harassment may contribute but they are dieing from other causes. If the tang was real aggressive you would see wounds on the other fish from there scaples.

The most recent loss was just 1 day really...put him in the afternoon, he was gone by morning. Usually the affected tangs will hang around a week or so, not eat, hide a bit and then ultimately die.

 

[amcvay]

This happened to me too, I was confused about why the fish and inverts I was adding would die within a day. Turned out my salinity was 1.30, so they were going from the 1.20 that the LFS keep them at straight to 1.30 and dying in a day or two. Now I recalibrate every 2 weeks as well as have more than one method of testing. I also qt now so salinity difference is never an issue.

The older fish didn't care because they'd already been adjusting to the salinity as it climbed.

Could be this in addition to ich.

That's interesting...my inverts/corals are all doing great though so I doubt it, but not impossible. I use an old school refractometer and don't calibrate as often as I should. Maybe it's time to buy a digital salinity checker as well?

 

[Fishyfish22]

That's interesting...my inverts/corals are all doing great though so I doubt it, but not impossible. I use an old school refractometer and don't calibrate as often as I should. Maybe it's time to buy a digital salinity checker as well?

Take sample of your water to a nearby LFS and ask them to check it

 

[((FORDTECH))]

So to start this off, I've had 4 reef systems up and running multiple years. I've always had tangs, they're some of my favorite fish bar none, but for some reason, my newest tank just can't support them. It seem very odd to me that I've never had issues w/Tangs in the past but after 2020 and the pandemic and fish suppliers stocks going non-existent, I can't help but wonder if something has changed in the supply chain to add stress to the fish.

My current reef tank is a 5 feet long 150 gallon acrylic. It's been up since March 2020, my water params are as follows;

Salt: 35ppt
Temp: 77-78 - controlled by BRS Controller
ALk - 8.5-9 dose kalk by ATO
Ph 8.1 to 8.17
Calcium - 450ppm
Nitrate - 3 ppm
Phos - .12

I keep mostly SPS frags and several colonies, lots of euphyllia, lots of zoa's and some monti frags. My water movement is very random and strong. I have 3 mp40's on reef crest 70-80% and a small gyre pump on high 24/7. I feed very heavily, frozen foods every day. Mostly Rod's, Reef Riot or Reef Frenzy with some added cyclops or zooplankton for the anthias.

My fish I started with and still have are;

4 chroms, 4 clowns (2 designer percs and 2 clarkiis), a rusty angel, 3 wrasses (6 line, leopard, red flasher), sand sifting goby, hawkfish, lyretail anthia, rabbit fish....

I had a fat and happy yellow tang that was added very early in the tank. I assumed he was the culprit to all the stress when adding any other tang to the tank so I traded him to my LFS. Since then, I've lost every tang I've tried with the exception of a sailfin.

I most recently purchased 3 tangs and added them at the same time. The Sailfin, a bluespot bristletooth and a powder brown. All were swimming happily at the LFS, all fat and large and eating mysis when I asked to have them fed. When I added them to my tank after a 30 min bath in 20ml per gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide, all three did well the first few days. Then slowly I didn't see the Powder Brown or Bluespot. Just the sailfin. The other 2 would hide all day, or make brief appearances, looked stressed out and then ran and hid. No eating, and of course covered in white bumps. My previous experience w/Tangs has always been they will get stressed and/or tussle with other tangs in the tank, establish dominance and eventually come to terms and start swimming together and eating nori I offer daily, plus the frozen foods. But in this tank, 1 tang always does well, and the rest starve and die. I've tried multiple times, I select fish that look very healthy, see them eat, etc...but they eventually all succumb to stress and stop eating.

Last week I saw a big fat healthy looking Blue Spot so against my better judgement I bought it. I told myself I'll add him in an acclimation box for a few days to observe. If he gets stressed I can pull him out, move him to a tank by himself and all should be fine. 3 days into the acclimation box, he's eating everything I offer him, swimming around trying to get out and join the rest of the fish in the tank, the sailfin and rabbit fish are around him all the time, they're not trying to attack, just curious. The blue spot isn't stressed, not a spot on him, so I let him join the rest of the fish after 4 days in the box. Within 1 hour, he was being bullied by the sailfin, had some quick swims in circles w/the rabbit fish and was covered in white bumps...the next morning he's dead. I just can't do this w/Tangs anymore. This tank doesn't seem to support more than 1, even with plenty of hiding spaces in the rocks, plenty of other peaceful tank mates....I just can't believe this keeps happening. And on top of it all, I let a nice big Yellow Tang go to the LFS and they're of course with big money now.

Anyone else experience this? I've had a 4 foot 150 in the past with 5 tangs that got along fine, weren't added at the same time, were all different colors/genus and I've always had good luck doing this...until this tank?

3 mp40 in a 150 all at 70% seems like crazy flow to me. Is it possible they die from stress from to much flow and they hid cause they trying to get out of the flow. The white spots are ich from being so stressed

 

[((FORDTECH))]

So to start this off, I've had 4 reef systems up and running multiple years. I've always had tangs, they're some of my favorite fish bar none, but for some reason, my newest tank just can't support them. It seem very odd to me that I've never had issues w/Tangs in the past but after 2020 and the pandemic and fish suppliers stocks going non-existent, I can't help but wonder if something has changed in the supply chain to add stress to the fish.

My current reef tank is a 5 feet long 150 gallon acrylic. It's been up since March 2020, my water params are as follows;

Salt: 35ppt
Temp: 77-78 - controlled by BRS Controller
ALk - 8.5-9 dose kalk by ATO
Ph 8.1 to 8.17
Calcium - 450ppm
Nitrate - 3 ppm
Phos - .12

I keep mostly SPS frags and several colonies, lots of euphyllia, lots of zoa's and some monti frags. My water movement is very random and strong. I have 3 mp40's on reef crest 70-80% and a small gyre pump on high 24/7. I feed very heavily, frozen foods every day. Mostly Rod's, Reef Riot or Reef Frenzy with some added cyclops or zooplankton for the anthias.

My fish I started with and still have are;

4 chroms, 4 clowns (2 designer percs and 2 clarkiis), a rusty angel, 3 wrasses (6 line, leopard, red flasher), sand sifting goby, hawkfish, lyretail anthia, rabbit fish....

I had a fat and happy yellow tang that was added very early in the tank. I assumed he was the culprit to all the stress when adding any other tang to the tank so I traded him to my LFS. Since then, I've lost every tang I've tried with the exception of a sailfin.

I most recently purchased 3 tangs and added them at the same time. The Sailfin, a bluespot bristletooth and a powder brown. All were swimming happily at the LFS, all fat and large and eating mysis when I asked to have them fed. When I added them to my tank after a 30 min bath in 20ml per gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide, all three did well the first few days. Then slowly I didn't see the Powder Brown or Bluespot. Just the sailfin. The other 2 would hide all day, or make brief appearances, looked stressed out and then ran and hid. No eating, and of course covered in white bumps. My previous experience w/Tangs has always been they will get stressed and/or tussle with other tangs in the tank, establish dominance and eventually come to terms and start swimming together and eating nori I offer daily, plus the frozen foods. But in this tank, 1 tang always does well, and the rest starve and die. I've tried multiple times, I select fish that look very healthy, see them eat, etc...but they eventually all succumb to stress and stop eating.

Last week I saw a big fat healthy looking Blue Spot so against my better judgement I bought it. I told myself I'll add him in an acclimation box for a few days to observe. If he gets stressed I can pull him out, move him to a tank by himself and all should be fine. 3 days into the acclimation box, he's eating everything I offer him, swimming around trying to get out and join the rest of the fish in the tank, the sailfin and rabbit fish are around him all the time, they're not trying to attack, just curious. The blue spot isn't stressed, not a spot on him, so I let him join the rest of the fish after 4 days in the box. Within 1 hour, he was being bullied by the sailfin, had some quick swims in circles w/the rabbit fish and was covered in white bumps...the next morning he's dead. I just can't do this w/Tangs anymore. This tank doesn't seem to support more than 1, even with plenty of hiding spaces in the rocks, plenty of other peaceful tank mates....I just can't believe this keeps happening. And on top of it all, I let a nice big Yellow Tang go to the LFS and they're of course with big money now.

Anyone else experience this? I've had a 4 foot 150 in the past with 5 tangs that got along fine, weren't added at the same time, were all different colors/genus and I've always had good luck doing this...until this tank?

I have 1 mp40 in a 120 set to 20% and that’s a lot of flow

 

[amcvay]

3 mp40 in a 150 all at 70% seems like crazy flow to me. Is it possible they die from stress from to much flow and they hid cause they trying to get out of the flow. The white spots are ich from being so stressed

it's on Reef Crest though, so it's not constant, they're not all 3 on at the same time either.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

it's on Reef Crest though, so it's not constant, they're not all 3 on at the same time either.

You speak of other tanks that you had success with tangs in. What kind of flow was in those? Did you have 3 mp40s?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I don’t have 3 mp40s in my 300 gallon tank !!!

 

[amcvay]

You speak of other tanks that you had success with tangs in. What kind of flow was in those? Did you have 3 mp40s?

In my 4 foot 150 I had 2 gyre's alternating, but I didn't have near the amount of SPS I do now.

 

[amcvay]

I don’t have 3 mp40s in my 300 gallon tank !!!

Do you have SPS?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Do you have SPS?

Yes in my 120

 

[((FORDTECH))]

In my 4 foot 150 I had 2 gyre's alternating, but I didn't have near the amount of SPS I do now.

2 gyres alternating is a lot less then 3 mp40s on 70% reef crest. I’m just saying a 4 foot tank with 3 mp40s is a lot of flow. Maybe to much for your tangs. Maybe next time turn them down for a week. Bet your tangs live without all the white spots

 

[amcvay]

2 gyres alternating is a lot less then 3 mp40s on 70% reef crest. I’m just saying a 4 foot tank with 3 mp40s is a lot of flow. Maybe to much for your tangs. Maybe next time turn them down for a week. Bet your tangs live without all the white spots

Current tank is a 5 foot 150, Reef crest at 70% so they only hit that once every 5-7 min or so and only for a few seconds. Nothing in the tank is getting blown around, I have a sand bottom and I don't have sand storms....still, it's a possibility. I'll try Tidal Swell on 25% for all 3 and see what happens....that would mean I'd need another Tang at some point though...

 

[Variant]

Can you post a picture of your Display? Curious to see how your aquascape is put together.

 

[amcvay]

Sure