Im done with LED, need help from experienced T5 users.

JMLewis · Apr 22, 2016

So I decided when I set up this latest tank to go with a Radion Pro G3 and I've never had sps look worse. The tank is a 66g cube 32x24x20. My parameters are on point and have been solid since practically day 1. I have almost 12 years of SPS experience and have never had the sort of issues im having now. All of my past tanks were ran by MH so little to no experience with T5.

Parameters:
Alk 8-8.5 DKH Salifert
CA 400-420 Salifert
Mag 1380 Salifert
N03 2.5 Salifert
Po4 .03 Hanna Phosphorus checker
7 fish fed twice daily

I've spent tons of time researching schedules that work for others, and ill be the first to admit that I mess with the schedule too much (part of the reason i'd like to get away from em) they're to tempting to mess with. So anyways Im over it, and hopefully with the help of T5 I can bring my sps out of their sad looking state.

Ill preface by saying cost is not a factor but no sense in spending a ridiculous amount if its not worth it. I'm currently leaning towards a 24" LED T5 Hybrid ATI Powermodule. I mainly want the LED portion of the light for the shimmer. T5 without shimmer seems very flat to me. But its over a $500+ difference between the ATI Fixtures with and without LED, and I'm trying to justify the cost. But at the end of the day if its the best T5 lighting I can give my corals then im 110% on board.

Also I could use some advise as far as how many bulbs. As i stated the tank dimensions are 32 x 24 x 20, but because of the overflow the actual space the corals are in is roughly 28 x 18 x 20. So would a 4 bulb + Led fixture be good or would I need an 8? Im a bit worried about an 8 bulb fixture looking obscenly to large for the size of the tank. The sand bed is around 18" from the surface of the water. Its mostly SPS on the rockscape with a few LPS on the sandbed.

If I was to go with the T5 only fixture id more than likely go with the 6 bulb fixture, but unfortunately the hybrid doesn't come in a 6 bulb option. And as far as bulbs go what color variety should I go for if I end up doing a 4 lamp etc.

The tank is 95% SPS so that's why im asking fellow "stick lovers" like myself what works for you.

Basically...Help a T5 noob out! Thanks all!

DamianOZ · Apr 22, 2016

OK, I'm two sided.
I'm an SPS aholic since the late 1990s, MH, T5s LEDs... done then all.

T5s work, they are set and forget, well kind off, you need to change tubes and work our a combo you like. If you want the easy road, I would go with 8 or even 10 Tube (if you can fit it) over your tank. I have run both 8 and 10 tubes and can help you with combos pending how you go. And I'm sure there will be many recommendations.

Second points
I am currently using Radion G3 Pros. I changed from 10x T5s 8 weeks ago for the purpose of seeing what differences I can observe. I have used them on other tanks, so had them handy. I have seen some changes, but certainly nothing dramatic or posibly even noticeable to most on lookers.
If you like, I'm happy to help you with my settings/set up of the Radions?

My Facebook page for reference
https://www.facebook.com/DamiansReef/

JMLewis · Apr 23, 2016

DamianOZ said:
OK, I'm two sided.
I'm an SPS aholic since the late 1990s, MH, T5s LEDs... done then all.

T5s work, they are set and forget, well kind off, you need to change tubes and work our a combo you like. If you want the easy road, I would go with 8 or even 10 Tube (if you can fit it) over your tank. I have run both 8 and 10 tubes and can help you with combos pending how you go. And I'm sure there will be many recommendations.

Second points
I am currently using Radion G3 Pros. I changed from 10x T5s 8 weeks ago for the purpose of seeing what differences I can observe. I have used them on other tanks, so had them handy. I have seen some changes, but certainly nothing dramatic or posibly even noticeable to most on lookers.
If you like, I'm happy to help you with my settings/set up of the Radions?

My Facebook page for reference
https://www.facebook.com/DamiansReef/

I'd definitely be interested in your settings/set up and appreciate your offering to help.

DamianOZ · Apr 23, 2016

On T5s or Radions?

JMLewis · Apr 23, 2016

DamianOZ said:
On T5s or Radions?

Both if you'd share. In the mean time im still using Radions but am leading heavily towards purchasing the 4 bulb ATI Hybrid. I feel like my SPS is just very slowly dying.

DamianOZ · Apr 23, 2016

OK, lests start with Radions.
I mount it 20" from the water
If you have a PAR meter, aim for 300PAR at the bottom under the light. If not, starting with these setting will put you with in the region

UV, RBlue, Blue = 100%
White 80%
Reds 27%
greens off

Power 100%. If your corals are with in the top 12" of the water, I would reduce the power to 90 - 95%

Set photo period to 7 hours with +2h ramp up and 2 hours ramp down.
Run it for 2 weeks, let us know what changes you observe.

I feel your tank would do better with two G3 units, to help with a better coverage and more even intensity, but if you need to buy another, I guess you may as well buy T5s.
Some other info may help
Are you Carbon dosing?
Are you dosing any AA?
Are you adding any coral specific foods?

I feel your water permitters are good, I prefer lower nutrients, but thats neither here nor there. But the water parameters can have an effect on lighting. For higher nutrients, I like a little longer photo period to help reduce the amount of zoax or cause some failing in the corals.

T5s are quite different. I personally prefer them to LEDs, I don't like the shadowing/rippling effect from LEDs. It is too disco, fast etc... unlike MH with is more soothing and crisp. I prefer a display with stunning colours with out moving shadows distracting from the colours. In less colourful tanks, I feel its ads some life... anyway, just my taste.
I don't feel you can physically fit too many T5s, the more the better. The settings I gave you for the Radions, would be like running a 400W MH lamp, but only using 230W instead of 440W. To get close to this intensity, and don't worry too much about comparing PAR between the lighting types, you would need 10 tubes sitting 4" from the water (Which will give you fantastic results BTW)

Now, you can use less, and still produce fantastic colours. I don't feel 4 or even 6 tubes will cut it for you.
The combo of tubes with depend on how many.
You will use Blue tubes, like ATI Blue Plus, or DD Actinic Plus, PS Crystal Blue... My favourite is FM Ultra Royal Blue
You will use some white tubes, like ATI Coral Plus, PS Spectra Plus, DD Aqua Blue Coral These a whitish with a red spike...
If I was using 6 tubes, I would go with 3 of each.
If I was using 8 tubes, I may add 1 blue and red tube like KZ purple plus and change on of the whites to a white with an true actinic.
If I was running 10 tubes, I may run 5 blue, 3 white and 2 DD true actinic
Or any combo with even blue to white will look and work ok. If you like a blue (20000K) then 5 to 3 blue to white would suit.

Although various manufacturers of tubes have similar tube, they will differ slightly in colour, if you like the green tinge of the Radium 20K with say a 10K lamp, you will like the ATI and PS blues, if you like less green, the FM is very nice.
Anyway, I'll stop waffling on for now lol.... there is many combinations, and you will get as many different opinions and reason to best combo

adestafi · Apr 23, 2016

Thank you for posting the simple settings fr radions! @DamianOZ

Zero Nitrates · Apr 23, 2016

Have you looked at the Hamilton T5/halide combos?

JMLewis · Apr 23, 2016

DamianOZ said:
OK, lests start with Radions.
I mount it 20" from the water
If you have a PAR meter, aim for 300PAR at the bottom under the light. If not, starting with these setting will put you with in the region

UV, RBlue, Blue = 100%
White 80%
Reds 27%
greens off

Power 100%. If your corals are with in the top 12" of the water, I would reduce the power to 90 - 95%

Set photo period to 7 hours with +2h ramp up and 2 hours ramp down.
Run it for 2 weeks, let us know what changes you observe.

I feel your tank would do better with two G3 units, to help with a better coverage and more even intensity, but if you need to buy another, I guess you may as well buy T5s.
Some other info may help
Are you Carbon dosing?
Are you dosing any AA?
Are you adding any coral specific foods?

I feel your water permitters are good, I prefer lower nutrients, but thats neither here nor there. But the water parameters can have an effect on lighting. For higher nutrients, I like a little longer photo period to help reduce the amount of zoax or cause some failing in the corals.

T5s are quite different. I personally prefer them to LEDs, I don't like the shadowing/rippling effect from LEDs. It is too disco, fast etc... unlike MH with is more soothing and crisp. I prefer a display with stunning colours with out moving shadows distracting from the colours. In less colourful tanks, I feel its ads some life... anyway, just my taste.
I don't feel you can physically fit too many T5s, the more the better. The settings I gave you for the Radions, would be like running a 400W MH lamp, but only using 230W instead of 440W. To get close to this intensity, and don't worry too much about comparing PAR between the lighting types, you would need 10 tubes sitting 4" from the water (Which will give you fantastic results BTW)

Now, you can use less, and still produce fantastic colours. I don't feel 4 or even 6 tubes will cut it for you.
The combo of tubes with depend on how many.
You will use Blue tubes, like ATI Blue Plus, or DD Actinic Plus, PS Crystal Blue... My favourite is FM Ultra Royal Blue
You will use some white tubes, like ATI Coral Plus, PS Spectra Plus, DD Aqua Blue Coral These a whitish with a red spike...
If I was using 6 tubes, I would go with 3 of each.
If I was using 8 tubes, I may add 1 blue and red tube like KZ purple plus and change on of the whites to a white with an true actinic.
If I was running 10 tubes, I may run 5 blue, 3 white and 2 DD true actinic
Or any combo with even blue to white will look and work ok. If you like a blue (20000K) then 5 to 3 blue to white would suit.

Although various manufacturers of tubes have similar tube, they will differ slightly in colour, if you like the green tinge of the Radium 20K with say a 10K lamp, you will like the ATI and PS blues, if you like less green, the FM is very nice.
Anyway, I'll stop waffling on for now lol.... there is many combinations, and you will get as many different opinions and reason to best combo

Wow thanks for the great info!

Your Radion settings are crazy, that's a lot of white I'm worried about cooking the corals at that setting. But maybe that's what's wrong. Right now I'm using the ecotech lab settings which has B, RB, UV at 100% R, G, W at 24%. I'm running it with a 2 hour ramp up/down with 8 hours at 67%. I'm using the RMS mount so the fixture is only 8-9" off the water.

Your right I could probably use 2 of em, but on this one I am using the TIR lenses. Gonna try bumping up the whites and lowering the reds and greens over a few days.

I'm currently dosing 5 ml of Acropower every 3 days, a few drops of Coral Vitalizer every few days, 2 part with balling trace elements added into it.

Russ265 · Apr 23, 2016

300 at the sandbed is ideal.

most people think they will cook corals... i assure you. you wont if you have nutrients.

i have 1200 1" below the surface. which is more than the radion pros put out. (albeit not by much)

id also drop peak lighting from 8 hours to 6.

JMLewis · Apr 23, 2016

Russ265 said:
300 at the sandbed is ideal.

most people think they will cook corals... i assure you. you wont if you have nutrients.

i have 1200 1" below the surface. which is more than the radion pros put out. (albeit not by much)

id also drop peak lighting from 8 hours to 6.

That's the problem, I don't have a PAR meter. Need to look around and see if I can borrow one somewhere.

twilliard · Apr 23, 2016

Russ265 said:
most people think they will cook corals... i assure you. you wont if you have nutrients.

Spot on Russ!

Russ265 · Apr 23, 2016

JMLewis said:
That's the problem, I don't have a PAR meter. Need to look around and see if I can borrow one somewhere.

no need. you can 100% everything with the gen 3 pros and get 1000 par 1" below the surface.

18" lower is 500

im guestimating but ive rented a par meter out to a local with the gen 3 pros (xr30w) just because he couldnt believe my par numbers.

if your spread is lacking... you may have even less.

Vaughn17 · Apr 23, 2016

Russ265 said:
300 at the sandbed is ideal.

most people think they will cook corals... i assure you. you wont if you have nutrients.

i have 1200 1" below the surface. which is more than the radion pros put out. (albeit not by much)

id also drop peak lighting from 8 hours to 6.

What lighting do you use, Russ?

Russ265 · Apr 23, 2016

Vaughn17 said:
What lighting do you use, Russ?

6x evergrow wifis. (reefbreeder's supplier)

sliding bay style. so when one dies. i just slide it out and slap in another.

you can check out the acro grow off where some radion guys are getting owned

twilliard · Apr 23, 2016

Russ265 said:
8x evergrow wifis. (reefbreeder's supplier)

sliding bay style. so when one dies. i just slide it out and slap in another.

Ohh ya now that is lighting!

Russ265 · Apr 23, 2016

twilliard said:
Ohh ya now that is lighting!

sorry 6x.

anyway. yeah. was impressed with the par

Vaughn17 · Apr 23, 2016

I have a few of those (Evergrows). Not running them right now, but I saw your impressive PC rainbow frag in the grow out contest, so maybe I should pull them out of the closet. Although my problem, as it turned out, was nutrients (or lack thereof) not lighting. I purchased a PC rainbow from Adam seven weeks ago and have it under T5s in a skimmerless, sumpless, tap water (really, really good, bottle and sell it tap water) system and it (frag) has almost encrusted the plug and grown several nubs. Not as excellent as your growth, but I'll take it. I would like to upgrade to a larger tank that could accomodate a T5 and LEDs.

Russ265 · Apr 23, 2016

Vaughn17 said:
I have a few of those (Evergrows). Not running them right now, but I saw your impressive PC rainbow frag in the grow out contest, so maybe I should pull them out of the closet. Although my problem, as it turned out, was nutrients (or lack thereof) not lighting. I purchased a PC rainbow from Adam seven weeks ago and have it under T5s in a skimmerless, sumpless, tap water (really, really good, bottle and sell it tap water) system and it (frag) has almost encrusted the plug and grown several nubs. Not as excellent as your growth, but I'll take it. I would like to upgrade to a larger tank that could accomodate a T5 and LEDs.

if lights are more than adequate you gotta chuck nutrients at it and keep alk around 11. otherwise... youll get decent growth and itll trudge along. but nothing to brag about right?

im so demotivated with the other players im not even trying. i even fragged my frag. lol

that all to the side.

keep nutrients available if you have powerful light. and keep alk elevated. it is a bit of a gamble if you arent on top of it. but those lights are solid.