Injury or something else

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

Greetings All,

I recently picked up some Anthis from an online vendor that are currently in QT (Hypo is the method of choice as I also have some higher end wrasse in QT as well). This fish arrived with what appeared to be a scratch, but seems to be worsening. I'm hopening it's not Uronema... thoughs appriciated. Parameters are spot on, no issues with water quality at all.

Qasimja · Apr 13, 2022

that looks to be uronema sorry to say

MnFish1 · Apr 13, 2022

1. How long ago did you get it?
2. How do the others look?

To me I agreee with @Qasimja it LOOKS like it COULD be uronema. But - it could also be an injury.

However - since Uronema is extremely dangerous - and quick moving - I would try to treat empirically - rather than waiting for the more typical 'red mark' (i.e. start 'now'). The treatment is chloroquine Phosphate. In case there is a superimposed bacterial issue (whether uronema - Or an injury) - you could use a broad spectrum antibiotic that would be available at your LFS. With Chloroquine (reference @Jay Hemdal) Treatment is difficult, but limited success has been seen dosing the aquarium with chloroquine phosphate at 15 to 20 mg/l". Note - this must be done with out inverts, coral etc - only in a Fish QT/hospital tank

I would consider treating ALL of the fish with chloroquine - as compared to the 'infected one'.

Looks like a beautiful fish - I'm sure others will comment. Best of luck.

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

MnFish1 said:
1. How long ago did you get it?
2. How do the others look?

To me I agreee with @Qasimja it LOOKS like it COULD be uronema. But - it could also be an injury.

However - since Uronema is extremely dangerous - and quick moving - I would try to treat empirically - rather than waiting for the more typical 'red mark' (i.e. start 'now'). The treatment is chloroquine Phosphate. In case there is a superimposed bacterial issue (whether uronema - Or an injury) - you could use a broad spectrum antibiotic that would be available at your LFS. With Chloroquine (reference @Jay Hemdal) Treatment is difficult, but limited success has been seen dosing the aquarium with chloroquine phosphate at 15 to 20 mg/l". Note - this must be done with out inverts, coral etc - only in a Fish QT/hospital tank

I would consider treating ALL of the fish with chloroquine - as compared to the 'infected one'.

Looks like a beautiful fish - I'm sure others will comment. Best of luck.

I’ve had this fish about a week, all othrs look fine and are eating well, swimming normally. Out of an abundance of caution I began this Tx Regiment per https://humble.fish/uronema/ . I’m out of Formalin and will pick up some more, in the meantime I began the Metro. If anyone has had success treating Uronema using a different protocol please let me know.

MnFish1 · Apr 13, 2022

J.D. said:
I’ve had this fish about a week, all othrs look fine and are eating well, swimming normally. Out of an abundance of caution I began this Tx Regiment per https://humble.fish/uronema/ . I’m out of Formalin and will pick up some more, in the meantime I began the Metro. If anyone has had success treating Uronema using a different protocol please let me know.

I have not used that particular protocol. One problem - if your fish is not eating - it might be difficult - as uronema can also spread internally (so oral metronidazole is also recommended in the article). Again - per that article - remember - that if there is active redness - do not use formalin or H2O2 as it may make things worse. I am not trying to dissuade you from using it at all - and I think starting something quickly is important.

Chloroquine Phosphate is the protocol used by the experts on this site. @Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

MnFish1 said:
I have not used that particular protocol. One problem - if your fish is not eating - it might be difficult - as uronema can also spread internally (so oral metronidazole is also recommended in the article). Again - per that article - remember - that if there is active redness - do not use formalin or H2O2 as it may make things worse. I am not trying to dissuade you from using it at all - and I think starting something quickly is important.

Chloroquine Phosphate is the protocol used by the experts on this site. @Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

I already pulled the fish in question the focus is now the remaining fish, with emphasis on a Splendid & Rombid Wrasse in the same QT system. I appreciate the feedback, I'll look this up as well (Chloroquine Phosphate).

Jay Hemdal · Apr 13, 2022

J.D. said:
I already pulled the fish in question the focus is now the remaining fish, with emphasis on a Splendid & Rombid Wrasse in the same QT system. I appreciate the feedback, I'll look this up as well (Chloroquine Phosphate).

The angle of the lesion is almost 100% Uronema. The only question would really be is it Uronema alone, or Uronema plus a gram negative bacteria. I've never been able to save a fish from this point. The Uronema is internal, so no medication can get to it at high enough doses to control it. Luckily, it is not very contagious. Chloroquine is best to control its spread. Here is a link to my article on it:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
The angle of the lesion is almost 100% Uronema. The only question would really be is it Uronema alone, or Uronema plus a gram negative bacteria. I've never been able to save a fish from this point. The Uronema is internal, so no medication can get to it at high enough doses to control it. Luckily, it is not very contagious. Chloroquine is best to control its spread. Here is a link to my article on it:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thank you Jay, I'll get the CP and begin treatment for the rest of the QT fish.

MnFish1 · Apr 13, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
The angle of the lesion is almost 100% Uronema. The only question would really be is it Uronema alone, or Uronema plus a gram negative bacteria. I've never been able to save a fish from this point. The Uronema is internal, so no medication can get to it at high enough doses to control it. Luckily, it is not very contagious. Chloroquine is best to control its spread. Here is a link to my article on it:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Jay - an opinion (yours) question - Do you think the rest of the fish should be treated as well - or just assume this unlucky guy/gal - was 'unlucky'. ?

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

MnFish1 said:
Jay - an opinion (yours) question - Do you think the rest of the fish should be treated as well - or just assume this unlucky guy/gal - was 'unlucky'. ?

Given the expense of some of the fish my DT (I qualify as a Wrasse hoarder)... I'd be more comfortable with a proactive treatment of all current QT guests. I am curious what the likelihood of Uronema being passed to other fish is in a QT environment? Is it as transmissible as Flukes or Ich?

MnFish1 · Apr 13, 2022

J.D. said:
Given the expense of some of the fish my DT (I qualify as a Wrasse hoarder)... I'd be more comfortable with a proactive treatment of all current QT guests. I am curious what the likelihood of Uronema being passed to other fish is in a QT environment? Is it as transmissible as Flukes or Ich?

Well the common wisdom - and I'm not a marine biologist - or an expert in marine parasitology. My guess is still the same:

1. If your fish is healthy - the likelihood of uronema is low
2. If you have a fish in a 'bunch' of fish - concern is warranted - even if not sick - because uronema can be transmitted/transferred to your display tank - and it will stay there.

You have a very interesting situation - 1 fish with (lets pretend) uronema - and multiple other fish in the same group - this is not a common question. I would be (personally) - CAREFUL - adding those fish (the healthy ones - to your display.. My Impression (and its mine alone) - every time a clown is sick is brooklynella - IN this case - this is a bigger deal - if its uronema - I would double or triple the quarantine time - before adding to my display - since - uronema - can just persists in a tank. I'm not trying to worry you - I'm looking at the worst condition/possibility

J.D. · Apr 13, 2022

MnFish1 said:
Well the common wisdom - and I'm not a marine biologist - or an expert in marine parasitology. My guess is still the same:

1. If your fish is healthy - the likelihood of uronema is low
2. If you have a fish in a 'bunch' of fish - concern is warranted - even if not sick - because uronema can be transmitted/transferred to your display tank - and it will stay there.

You have a very interesting situation - 1 fish with (lets pretend) uronema - and multiple other fish in the same group - this is not a common question. I would be (personally) - CAREFUL - adding those fish (the healthy ones - to your display.. My Impression (and its mine alone) - every time a clown is sick is brooklynella - IN this case - this is a bigger deal - if its uronema - I would double or triple the quarantine time - before adding to my display - since - uronema - can just persists in a tank. I'm not trying to worry you - I'm looking at the worst condition/possibility

I agree 100%...
Not entirely sure how best to proceed, if were just the anthias in QT I my call it a total loss and start over. But with a Splendid and Rhomboid in the same QT, it's just not that simple.
CP ordered, we'll go that route and see if any further issues develop after a nice LONG QT.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 13, 2022

MnFish1 said:
Jay - an opinion (yours) question - Do you think the rest of the fish should be treated as well - or just assume this unlucky guy/gal - was 'unlucky'. ?

Tough to say - in a tank with a bunch of new wrasses and anthias, it could be more communicable than I typically see in mixed quarantines, where a few anthias or a few wrasse die from it and then none of the other fish have issues.....
Chloroquine is not without its own risks.

Jay

J.D. · Apr 16, 2022

@Jay Hemdal

Following up on this thread I've have the 2 additional female Anthis die form what we can assume is Uronema. I picked up CP and would like to be begin Tx, my issue - the QT is @ a SG of 1.009, can I begin CP in a Hypo environment?

Jay Hemdal · Apr 17, 2022

J.D. said:
@Jay Hemdal

Following up on this thread I've have the 2 additional female Anthis die form what we can assume is Uronema. I picked up CP and would like to be begin Tx, my issue - the QT is @ a SG of 1.009, can I begin CP in a Hypo environment?

Sorry, I can't say. I've never tried dosing chloroquine during hypo. One thing that may have gotten lost along the way (it was in my article) - Uronema is actually helped by hypo salinity. The worst cases are seen when fish are being held at lower than normal salinity. In fact, for seadragons, hypersalinity is a common treatment (I'm not suggesting you do that though).

Jay