Introuducing co2 into a saltwater tank to increase zoozanthelle propigation...Experiment

[Alex's Nano Reef]

hey everyone im a junior in high school and im in honors marine science. i have to do a independent study experiment. what i am thinking is if i can use co2 s a catalist for coral growth. so we all know about zoozanthelle. zoozanthelle turns co2 into oxygen which is supplied to the coral. another job of zoozanthelle is it creats amino acids,glucose, glycerol which in turn the coral uses these to make tissue proteins,fat,carbohydrates,and produce calcium carbonate. sooo if i dose the co2 will it exel the coral growth and health. thats what i am thinking about for the experiment. i need to find a method of adding disolved co2 to the water. i anyone has a product or method please let me know n the comments section. and feel free to add an suggestions. BTW i am aware that if i dose co2 the ph will change but i can fix that........

P.S.

While the experiment is under way I Wil be using items to keep the ph at 8.2 and have water parameters that are ideal..
Also we might look at lps and zoanthidz's.... Post ur comments ideas and any questions.....

Sincerely
Alex

 

[FLAdaboy]

I'm not a science guy and I've been out of school for awhile. That being said, I'll rely on my reefing experience. By adding co2 to the water you will create an acidic environment. How do you plan on keeping the ph at 8.2? With the chemistry fluctuating up and down, you might have coral die off pretty fast. It's a very interesting theory though. I would be interested to hear more about your experiment for sure. Good luck!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=co2+aquarium&tbm=shop
id balance the o2 and co2 to adjust ph rather than a chem buffer personally.
that would increase available c02 while maintaining high 02 thus balancing Ph just with gases.

 

[FLAdaboy]

What about the addition of co2 at certain times. For example, adding it during daylight and adding the o2 at night. I wander what the addition of gases as opposed to chemicals would do. You definitely need a chemist.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

What about the addition of co2 at certain times. For example, adding it during daylight and adding the o2 at night. I wander what the addition of gases as opposed to chemicals would do. You definitely need a chemist.

ether would swing PH. I add o2 in the day by having a refugium on an opposite lighting schedule. in short, the chem method is adding co2 by dissolving calcium. its why some methods of dosing drives Ph up or down.

 

[TNT32D]

Wouldn't a calcium reactor add CO2 and help buff the water at same time?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Wouldn't a calcium reactor add CO2 and help buff the water at same time?

yup.

 

[FLAdaboy]

Wouldn't a calcium reactor add CO2 and help buff the water at same time?

That would be the simplest way to achieve what he's going for.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

That would be the simplest way to achieve what he's going for.

save that he'd have high alk and cal. with little increase in available O2 and Co2. it why I wouldn't increase c02 and adjust chemical the Ph swing as he proposed..

 

[Lasse]

hey everyone im a junior in high school and im in honors marine science. i have to do a independent study experiment. what i am thinking is if i can use co2 s a catalist for coral growth. so we all know about zoozanthelle. zoozanthelle turns co2 into oxygen which is supplied to the coral. another job of zoozanthelle is it creats amino acids,glucose, glycerol which in turn the coral uses these to make tissue proteins,fat,carbohydrates,and produce calcium carbonate. sooo if i dose the co2 will it exel the coral growth and health. thats what i am thinking about for the experiment. i need to find a method of adding disolved co2 to the water. i anyone has a product or method please let me know n the comments section. and feel free to add an suggestions. BTW i am aware that if i dose co2 the ph will change but i can fix that........

P.S.

While the experiment is under way I Wil be using items to keep the ph at 8.2 and have water parameters that are ideal..
Also we might look at lps and zoanthidz's.... Post ur comments ideas and any questions.....

Sincerely
Alex

Now we are talking.

You need:
An Aquarium controller with possibiltie for PID regulation (or sort of)
CO2 gas
solenoid valve
a good skimmer
A CO2 scrubber

You have to program your computer to switch on the solenoid valve (CO2) if pH is over 8.2 (short around 1 sec) and put on your skimmer below 8.2 (if you want to use 8.2). The skimmer must take its air through the CO2 scrubber otherwise you will never come up in a pH over 8.15 and it will vary if your friends come into the room - just to look at the experiment.

I have done exactly this setup for a scientist test of pH and coral survival. I use a Profilux 3.1 computer and manage to stable the pH to vary between 0.01 – 0.03 around the desired values.

The profilux computer is optimal in this use because you do not need an on – off behavior – you can use a type of PID regulation inbuild in the computer. You can also – if you need - use virtual probes if you want different setpoints for the aeration (skimmer) and the CO2 injector. An on-off behavior will give too much variation of the pH and you can´t compensate for delays between action and measurement. CO2 is very powerfull in order to lower the pH

To have optimal growth – our studies (they was not aimed for optimal growth) indicate that at least for some corals – It’s between 8 and 8.2



Sincerely Lasse

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

Well that just was added to our budget

 

[Lasse]

Hello Alex

I wrote an answer to you according to my tank - I published in my thread in order to have your thread clean and no discussions of my Aquarium. The answer is here

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BlueCursor]

Planted freshwater tanks do this all the time. Check out CO2 injection in planted tank forums. When I did this I basically did what Lasse said. CO2 gas, solenoid, pH controller. The thing to keep in mind is you want to not agitate the water or the CO2 goes out fast. If you have a sump, you want the return to go down into the sock and water in the sump to reduce splashing and agitation. And this is the hardest part: The skimmer has to stay off unless you have it in a room with a high CO2 content.

 

[Lasse]

Planted freshwater tanks do this all the time. Check out CO2 injection in planted tank forums. When I did this I basically did what Lasse said. CO2 gas, solenoid, pH controller. The thing to keep in mind is you want to not agitate the water or the CO2 goes out fast. If you have a sump, you want the return to go down into the sock and water in the sump to reduce splashing and agitation. And this is the hardest part: The skimmer has to stay off unless you have it in a room with a high CO2 content.

When you use it in freshwater tanks - you often want a pH below 7. In a coral tank you should not be below 7.9 – 8 (because of the calcification process) and you want a stable pH. Your CO2 content in surrounding air is nowadays seldom below 400 ppm. 400 ppm respond to a saltwater pH around 8.15 in equilibrium. Normally – the CO2 levels in a closed room with people vary between 400 to 1000 ppm and over. In this pH – there is no problems with losing CO2 to the air.

The problem – if he want to do a growth experiment - is the variation of pH during the day. During the dark light regime – pH often go down below 8 and during daytime with light on – it rise. This variation depends on the CO2 level in surrounding air, production of CO2 in the tank and consumption of CO2 through the photosynthesis. What you have to address is the fact that the photosynthesis consumption will be faster than the production in the tank and faster than the equilibrium process. With raised pH – lower CO2 content in the water – no optimal photosynthetic process. If you can regulate the pH to be stable – let us say around 8.1 with help of adding CO2 – the corals (and the algae!) will have a low but steady source of CO2. However – the adding of CO2 when you have pH around 8.1 – 8.2 will affect the pH very fast. Its very, very small amounts of CO2 you need. You will have a regulation problem. With use of both adding CO2 (with gas) and stripping CO2 (with help of CO2 scrubbed air and aeration through the skimmer) - It’s possible to do this. But you need a good regulation system.

I am aware of the fact that most corals is able to use bicarbonates as a source of CO2 and that Zooxanthella’s is able to use CO2 from the hosts metabolism – but I have noticed through the years that system that use Calcium reactors often have a more rapid growth than other systems. These systems has often a very stable pH around 8 – 8.1 caused by CO2 spill from the reactor. I think this experiment that Alex will do is very interesting (and he will get a lot of understanding of these processes)


Sincerely Lasse

 

[BlueCursor]

...
I have noticed through the years that system that use Calcium reactors often have a more rapid growth than other systems. These systems has often a very stable pH around 8 – 8.1 caused by CO2 spill from the reactor.

Interesting about calcium reactors and growth. I have always suspected that CO2 scrubbers in a reef aquarium was probably a bad idea unless the home CO2 is very very high.

I bough a home CO2 meter and have it in my utility room where my sump is. My CO2 ranges from 400-710 ppm. The norm is 480-580 ppm.

I hope the Op comes back and publishes his findings in this thread at the end of the experiment. My curiosity is peaked now. CO2 levels and coral growth. pH vs available CO2 for growth. Interesting balance.

 

[Lasse]

I live in cold climate with good isolated buildings. My CO2 levels peak at around 1000 in the living room at the evening (we are 2 adults and a cat). Without a CO2 scrubber my pH goes down to around 7.8 during early morning. I have a very active biological system with high production of CO2. I need the scrubber.

I have partly change my mind about the importance of rather high pH in a reef aquaria

But earlier I always talk about the importance of a high as possible pH. It was based on the fact that the calcification process works better in higher pH and that the Zooxanthella can get CO2 from the host. But some figures from an investigation I was part of and the old knowing that system with CO2 spill maybe have higher growth rate make me a little bit critical to my old stanpoint. There is also some scientific investigations that have shown that some phytoplankton which are calcifying algae grow better with pH around 8.15 compared with higher values. The theory was – higher CO2 – higher photosynthesis – more energy to the calcifying process. This effect seems disappear in pH below 8. I have not the references to this article.

Sincerely Lasse