ION Director - measuring Ca + Mg

[Brew12]

Will this Ca/Mg/etc. probe technology eventually move towards an in sump probe that connects directly to the controller? Like how pH, salinity, ORP work today.

I suspect not any time in the near future. Right now all the methods used to measure these require some sort of external reagent. It's possible someone may come up with a way to in the future, but to the best of my knowledge there isn't a known process or reaction that can be measured directly for most of these elements.

 

[Billldg]

I just added up what is would cost for me to switch from a Apex unit, which I have had no problems with and love, to a GHL and its a little scary, like 2700 dollars scary before the ION director comes out. For me to switch I would think it would have to be the one thing that got me interested in this thread to begin with, the possibility of measuring nitrates and phosphates on top of the other big 3. If the ION comes out with nitrate and phosphate testing on top of cal and mag, thenI may switch.

Hopefully we will find out by MACNA 2019.

 

[Billldg]

Thanks for asking and giving me the opportunity to clarify this, others have certainly already asked themselves this question.

Yes, you can use the ION Director without the ProfiLux. We will have here a similar principle as with the KHD:

1. ION Director + GHL Doser Standalone - the Doser is here the "brain" - no ProfiLux controller needed

2. KH Director + GHL Doser Slave + ProfiLux 3/4(e) - the ProfiLux is here the brain

If you decide for option 1 you can later still add a ProfiLux: The GHL Doser Standalone can be changed to behave like a Slave (just a software setting), you add a ProfiLux and the ProfiLux takes over the control.

I see these 2 possibilities, but if I want to test alk, cal, and mag and whatever else is included in the ION, then I would need a KH director and a ION director, correct?

Sorry as this may have already been answered, but I noticed that the ION needs 3 pumps, so does the KH director, can they use the same 3 pumps?

 

[road_runner]

I just added up what is would cost for me to switch from a Apex unit, which I have had no problems with and love, to a GHL and its a little scary, like 2700 dollars scary before the ION director comes out. For me to switch I would think it would have to be the one thing that got me interested in this thread to begin with, the possibility of measuring nitrates and phosphates on top of the other big 3. If the ION comes out with nitrate and phosphate testing on top of cal and mag, thenI may switch.

Hopefully we will find out by MACNA 2019.

Buying the ghl is cheaper compared to apex given how integrated the p4 controller is..
While Neptune force you on buying module after module to add functions, ghl p4 have most integrated in the controller.
Same applied for the doser, ghl doser give more functions and cheaper compared to Neptune Dos...
One of the first benifits I had was to actually depend on the probs reading...ghl salinity and ph was much better snd reliable compared to what I had with apex...

I got the ghl ultimate package which is around 1200$. It was equivalent to
Apex 2016+pm2+pm1+1link+atk+ald+orp prob which I think would cost around 1300 or 1400$.
I changed a spaghetti of wires and modules with 1 box and much less wires...

Am buying the ghl doser 2.1 which is way more reliable than dos for 450$ that gives 5 dosing heads and can work stand alone. Dos would cost 600$ and cannot work stand alone.

Not getting the kh director yet since I love my kh guardian.

Will wait for the ion director and get one.

 

[Billldg]

Buying the ghl is cheaper compared to apex given how integrated the p4 controller is..
While Neptune force you on buying module after module to add functions, ghl p4 have most integrated in the controller.
Same applied for the doser, ghl doser give more functions and cheaper compared to Neptune Dos...
One of the first benifits I had was to actually depend on the probs reading...ghl salinity and ph was much better snd reliable compared to what I had with apex...

I got the ghl ultimate package which is around 1200$. It was equivalent to
Apex 2016+pm2+pm1+1link+atk+ald+orp prob which I think would cost around 1300 or 1400$.
I changed a spaghetti of wires and modules with 1 box and much less wires...

Am buying the ghl doser 2.1 which is way more reliable than dos for 450$ that gives 5 dosing heads and can work stand alone. Dos would cost 600$ and cannot work stand alone.

Not getting the kh director yet since I love my kh guardian.

Will wait for the ion director and get one.

I really didn't care for the touch screen, so I selected the package just below that one you got. When I say 2700 dollars, I am not comparing apples to apples, I added a few things that raised the price a little that I wanted, hate the fact that the power bar only has 6 outlets, had to get 2, but that may be enough, in order to monitor and adjust alk you have to have the KH director and 3 pumps, depending on whether or not the ION director needs an additional 3 pumps may be the deal breaker, the fact that I only dose alk and cal may sway me to still keep an interest in switching, we will see.

The whole thing is that I have no issues with my Apex and aren't driven by anything related to Neptune, if I switch it needs to be for a good reason, nitrate and phosphate monitoring may be that reason as I feel Neptune may be behind and I'm not sure how far along they may be on that technology.

When I talk, I am talking hypothetically, just priced everything on their site, I haven't bought anything yet.

​

 

[road_runner]

I really didn't care for the touch screen, so I selected the package just below that one you got. When I say 2700 dollars, I am not comparing apples to apples, I added a few things that raised the price a little that I wanted, hate the fact that the power bar only has 6 outlets, had to get 2, but that may be enough, in order to monitor and adjust alk you have to have the KH director and 3 pumps, depending on whether or not the ION director needs an additional 3 pumps may be the deal breaker, the fact that I only dose alk and cal may sway me to still keep an interest in switching, we will see.

The whole thing is that I have no issues with my Apex and aren't driven by anything related to Neptune, if I switch it needs to be for a good reason, nitrate and phosphate monitoring may be that reason as I feel Neptune may be behind and I'm not sure how far along they may be on that technology.​

Completely see your point. The good thing is ghl release anticipated functions in stand alone so you can use them regardless if you have ghl controller or not.
Opposit to apex where they cheap out on the module or the added function, make it required apex for brain to both reduce the cost of the module and force you to buy their stuff only.

To me apex was working, but I had a realization that I was more convincing myself its working well which was not true...

-Probs reading are never accurate.
-Atk thrown away cause it's not reliable
-Fmm and flow meters are not accurate and not reliable

So the only thing I was using apex reliabily was for remote control on off which is simple function....

Hence my conclusion to bite the bullet, change and start investing in GHL.

 

[road_runner]

Btw I still cannot justify any kh tester above kh guardian. Its test and dose. Stand alone. Good quality and stability. Least noise compared to what's in the market and the cheapest options comparing apple to apple... been using 2 units for 2 years now..
That's why indid not buy the kh director.

 

[Billldg]

Completely see your point. The good thing is ghl release anticipated functions in stand alone so you can use them regardless if you have ghl controller or not.
Opposit to apex where they cheap out on the module or the added function, make it required apex for brain to both reduce the cost of the module and force you to buy their stuff only.

To me apex was working, but I had a realization that I was more convincing myself its working well which was not true...

-Probs reading are never accurate.
-Atk thrown away cause it's not reliable
-Fmm and flow meters are not accurate and not reliable

So the only thing I was using apex reliabily was for remote control on off which is simple function....

Hence my conclusion was to bit the bullet, change and start investing in GHL.

And that is something I will have to deal with, either to or not to bite the bullet and switch. Had I bought the Trident then I would say that I was commented due to expense, but the fact that Neptune is slow in supplying the Trident kept me from buying one and thus, here we are having this conversation.

 

[leepink23]

And that is something I will have to deal with, either to or not to bite the bullet and switch. Had I bought the Trident then I would say that I was commented due to expense, but the fact that Neptune is slow in supplying the Trident kept me from buying one and thus, here we are having this conversation.

Same here, the ion Director is very interesting, especially if phosphate is added!

 

[Billldg]

Oh, and this is directed at @Matthias Gross because I have read thru this thread and saw where it was sometimes heading, I am not debating pricing or comparing pricing, I see you have been beaten over the head several times from people trying to debate this, lol, if I switch it would be from scratch and I want full monitoring along with the extras, thus the 2700 dollars plus price tag. Just had a few questions to see if switching justified the cost most of us should already know when fully switching.

 

[road_runner]

Oh, and this is directed at @Matthias Gross because I have read thru this thread and saw where it was sometimes heading, I am not debating pricing or comparing pricing, I see you have been beaten over the head several times from people trying to debate this, lol, if I switch it would be from scratch and I want full monitoring along with the extras, thus the 2700 dollars plus price tag. Just had a few questions to see if switching justified the cost most of us should already know when fully switching.

All good bud. Facts do not change if they are facts that's why my answers are usually the same.
I do not mind debating people. As long as its logical and not just fanboy debates ha ha.
I think debating pricing is very healthy and should be done. Customers should not be fanboys and tradeoff for the vendor against themself..
So yeh I would say pricing should absolutely be part of what you would consider when buying something.
Quality
Price
Functionality
Level of integration
And finally customer service...

 

[Ditto]

Btw I still cannot justify any kh tester above kh guardian. Its test and dose. Stand alone. Good quality and stability. Least noise compared to what's in the market and the cheapest options comparing apple to apple... been using 2 units for 2 years now..
That's why indid not buy the kh director.

Technically the KH director stand alone with 4 dosing heads will test and dose also :)

 

[road_runner]

Technically the KH director stand alone with 4 dosing heads will test and dose also :)

Yup... from quality it's the same quality as khg. Price is bit higher..it was really hard for me not to buy it. I just love my kh guardian..

 

[Billldg]

All good bud. Facts do not change if they are facts that's why my answers are usually the same.
I do not mind debating people. As long as its logical and not just fanboy debates ha ha.
I think debating pricing is very healthy and should be done. Customers should not be fanboys and tradeoff for the vendor against themself..
So yeh I would say pricing should absolutely be part of what you would consider when buying something.
Quality
Price
Functionality
Level of integration
And finally customer service...

If I switch I will buy:

ProfiLux 4 Mega-Set 6E, Black,
Powerbar 6E-PAB
KH Director/GHL Doser 2.1 SA, 4 pumps, black combo
Level Sensor, optical
Leakage Interface
Leakage Sensor x2
Flow Sensor 9000 l/h x2
GHL Doser 2.1 Slave, 4 pumps, maybe, depends on ION and it having a package deal with doser

Along with the ION.

 

[road_runner]

If I switch I will buy:

ProfiLux 4 Mega-Set 6E, Black,
Powerbar 6E-PAB
KH Director/GHL Doser 2.1 SA, 4 pumps, black combo
Level Sensor, optical
Leakage Interface
Leakage Sensor x2
Flow Sensor 9000 l/h x2
GHL Doser 2.1 Slave, 4 pumps, maybe, depends on ION and it having a package deal with doser

Along with the ION.

Solid choice. So far I did not use the touch controller much. Mega package is solid.
Btw I learned load of stuff from ditto...honestly am still novice in ghl. I talk much because I like what am having so far.. credit to ditto for teaching me and easing me in to it.

 

[Billldg]

Solid choice. So far I did not use the touch controller much. Mega package is solid.
Btw I leaned load of stuff from ditto...honestly am still novice in ghl. I talk much because I like what am having so far.. credit to ditto for teaching me and easing me in to it.

I started reading his conversion thread, his setup, whether its Apex or now GHL looks like something out of NASA, LOL!!!

 

[Ditto]

I started reading his conversion thread, his setup, whether its Apex or now GHL looks like something out of NASA, LOL!!!

Yes, it does hehe :)

 

[Kyl]

If I switch I will buy:

.................

I started reading his conversion thread, his setup, whether its Apex or now GHL looks like something out of NASA, LOL!!!

If you want to fire some PM's feel free. I've been having the same type of talk with a few people here, though my current ecosystem investment is across two tanks, not just one. Ditto has been great, just strait answers and his reasoning isn't petty.

 

[Gaël]

on these Ion probes. One advantage of using them for testing/monitoring would seem to be the lack of reagent, so the ongoing cost should be less

No reagent but calibration fluid.
If I understand correctly it requires a calibration before each test, that's why they must design a device and not just put probes alone. So there will be consumption of calibration fluid at each measurement.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Will this Ca/Mg/etc. probe technology eventually move towards an in sump probe that connects directly to the controller? Like how pH, salinity, ORP work today.

this is very unlikely, the use of these probes is quite different (calibration, cleaning, etc.)