Is a proper canister filter really more work?

[simplicity]

The Biomaster 850 I'm looking at has a prefilter section that is very easy to remove and clean which collects most of the gunk in the tank before it enters the main filter area, which I would only fill with biomedia.

Now, people keep saying you have to clean them often, but don't you have to clean filter socks and the protein skimmer every few days? A guy I'm watching on youtube has a very successful tank using just a Biomaster 600 (with the high PPI pre filter foam and biomedia in the main chamber), and an inline algae reactor (Tunze). He says all he does is take out the prefilter and squeeze the gunk out and put the foam back on (every 3-4 days).

The system I'm planning out includes the stronger Biomaster 850, a chaeto reactor on its own pump, and a UV sterilizer on the output on of the Biomaster that can be turned on/off as needed. The lily inlet I'm getting provides both surface skimming and pulls in water from the middle column.

If the prefilters are cleaned regularly why is this not a viable system? At least you don't have to worry about cleaning the filter socks and protein skimmer every few days...

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

if it works for you then great. I had one for a year once, then finally stopped using it and, it made no real difference. It’s basically a glorified powerhead.

 

[Tamberav]

The Biomaster 850 I'm looking at has a prefilter section that is very easy to remove and clean which collects most of the gunk in the tank before it enters the main filter area, which I would only fill with biomedia.

Now, people keep saying you have to clean them often, but don't you have to clean filter socks and the protein skimmer every few days? A guy I'm watching on youtube has a very successful tank using just a Biomaster 600 (with the high PPI pre filter foam and biomedia in the main chamber), and an inline algae reactor (Tunze). He says all he does is take out the prefilter and squeeze the gunk out and put the foam back on (every 3-4 days).

The system I'm planning out includes the stronger Biomaster 850, a chaeto reactor on its own pump, and a UV sterilizer on the output on of the Biomaster that can be turned on/off as needed. The lily inlet I'm getting provides both surface skimming and pulls in water from the middle column.

If the prefilters are cleaned regularly why is this not a viable system? At least you don't have to worry about cleaning the filter socks and protein skimmer every few days...

I hope I don't have to clean my skimmer that often... haaha thing is lucky if I clean it once a month.

Socks you should change every 3 days but could also just put floss in there and toss so you don't wash socks. Or run sockless.

 

[Idech]

I used canister filters for decades for my freshwater tanks. I hated cleaning them and only did it once a month, sometimes every two months. I’ve had many types and they’re all a pain IMO. The one you’re looking at looks no different.

For my tank, I coudn’t have a sump and I chose the Tunze 3168 internal filter. It does a great job and you only have to open a flap to change the floss. It takes 5 seconds. That might be an option for you, if you don’t mind that it‘s in the tank. I got the Tunze internal skimmer as well, great pair. You can see them in my build thread If you care to.

 

[simplicity]

I used canister filters for decades for my freshwater tanks. I hated cleaning them and only did it once a month, sometimes every two months. I’ve had many types and they’re all a pain IMO. The one you’re looking at looks no different.

For my tank, I coudn’t have a sump and I chose the Tunze 3168 internal filter. It does a great job and you only have to open a flap to change the floss. It takes 5 seconds. That might be an option for you, if you don’t mind that it‘s in the tank. I got the Tunze internal skimmer as well, great pair. You can see them in my build thread If you care to.

It’s different because it has a pre filter with 6 sponges on a skewer that you can remove by just twisting a cap and pulling the skewer out. Check out a cleaning video of it, it’s very easy. Did your canister filters have a decent pre filter?

 

[Tamberav]

It’s different because it has a pre filter with 6 sponges on a skewer that you can remove by just twisting a cap and pulling the skewer out. Check out a cleaning video of it, it’s very easy. Did your canister filters have a decent pre filter?

what’s the point of it though? Why bio media? The live rock will be plenty.

It would be more beneficial to have a place to run carbon, etc. which I am guessing you would need to open it up for that.

It just seems like a glorified filter sock with a spot to stash more biomedia which isn’t even needed in a saltwater tank but good for making a company money.

I would not compare it to a skimmer as a skimmer does more then grab larger particles.

I mean if you have it then sure, run it with you want but I would not spend money on it. I personally do not like sponges and plenty of gunk still passed them.

 

[Spare time]

They are recirculating garbage cans. Unlike filter pads you can quickly remove and rinse in a HOB, or swap a sock, you have to shut the canister down, remove the layers, rinse the biofoam and what not that becomes a detritus trap, and then place it all back, and reconnect the canister. They actively dis-incentivize you to frequently clean the mechanical filter. Frequent mechanical filter cleaning is one of the easiest ways to avoid unnecessary build ups of nitrate and phosphate. Canisters are often not very good at aerating the water, and combine this with all of the decaying matter inside that may not be cleaned often, is not great for oxygen in the tank.

 

[WVNed]

It's a simple answer
Yes it is.

 

[xCry0x]

Of all the things you can spend money on, a canister filter is simply dated tech that isn't particularly useful for a reef tank.

I wouldn't say you can't run a good tank with one.

But you definitely can run a fantastic tank without one. So why bother getting one?

Better off putting the money towards a nice skimmer and running filter floss/socks if you want mechanical filtration.

 

[simplicity]

Yes, for a typical canister filter I would not want to clean the whole thing out every weekend... but I'm talking about a Biomaster 850. Watch the video I posted, the guy has an incredible reef tank and he's running only a Biomaster 600 with an inline algae reactor. The ease of removing the pre filter is what makes this unit different than other canisters.

I'm not sure if I'll be dosing much , I don't want my tank full of corals, I like fish more. So I probably won't need a sump for that. I can always run the little clear acrylic lines up into the tank, if I need to dose.

Anyways, the reason I'm pushing the canister idea is because this will be my first saltwater tank. I just got my Waterbox 4820 clear, which is the freshwater version. It has clear silicone, so I want to keep that clear look (no background). And since there is no plumbing, it cannot be drilled, and I don't want ugly stuff hanging off of it. I am going to use glass lily pipes so you will barely notice the tubes/pipes.

From what I understand, Canister filters are very quiet and if you clean them regularly (again biomaster is easy to clean the prefilter, which is what gets the dirtiest), then they shouldn't be a problem. Again, if I'm not as diligent as I should be, the algae reactor I'm installing should be able to handle some of those nitrates, I would think. And adding carbon/GFO will clean out the water. The UV sterilizer will kill single cell organisms/algae on a per needed basis.

The thing is that if I hypothetically get a sump, I will either need to return my aquarium and get a different one with predrilled holes, install an HOB overflow (which I don't want to do, since this is a clear tank with no background, I don't want to paint it, and HOBs have a bad reputation... well ehm), buy a skimmer, buy a return pump, get all the plumbing. Then I have a big mess, when I could have had everything nice and neat with 3 simple devices: canister filter (w/ easy clean pre filter), chaeto reactor, and UV sterilizer.

I'll be installing a sliding drawer inside the aquarium cabinet that the canister will sit on so that I can easily slide it in and out. Like I said, the pre filter cleaning looks super easy. It took the guy I was watching less than a minute to accomplish. I could do that at least once a week. From the guys I've been watching, they say the main filter doesn't need to be opened except every month and a half to three months. Some have gone longer than 6 months without touching the canister and have a successful reef (this one was a comment so I couldn't verify what his tank looked like).

 

[Bucs20fan]

Ill tell you now, I have a fluval fx6 on my fowlr predator aquarium, and that thing moves some serious water. I stick to a strict schedule and clean it bi-weekly and havent had a single issue with it. I do have a skimmer running also, but no complaints here.

 

[Tamberav]

Yes, for a typical canister filter I would not want to clean the whole thing out every weekend... but I'm talking about a Biomaster 850. Watch the video I posted, the guy has an incredible reef tank and he's running only a Biomaster 600 with an inline algae reactor. The ease of removing the pre filter is what makes this unit different than other canisters.

I'm not sure if I'll be dosing much , I don't want my tank full of corals, I like fish more. So I probably won't need a sump for that. I can always run the little clear acrylic lines up into the tank, if I need to dose.

Anyways, the reason I'm pushing the canister idea is because this will be my first saltwater tank. I just got my Waterbox 4820 clear, which is the freshwater version. It has clear silicone, so I want to keep that clear look (no background). And since there is no plumbing, it cannot be drilled, and I don't want ugly stuff hanging off of it. I am going to use glass lily pipes so you will barely notice the tubes/pipes.

From what I understand, Canister filters are very quiet and if you clean them regularly (again biomaster is easy to clean the prefilter, which is what gets the dirtiest), then they shouldn't be a problem. Again, if I'm not as diligent as I should be, the algae reactor I'm installing should be able to handle some of those nitrates, I would think. And adding carbon/GFO will clean out the water. The UV sterilizer will kill single cell organisms/algae on a per needed basis.

The thing is that if I hypothetically get a sump, I will either need to return my aquarium and get a different one with predrilled holes, install an HOB overflow (which I don't want to do, since this is a clear tank with no background, I don't want to paint it, and HOBs have a bad reputation... well ehm), buy a skimmer, buy a return pump, get all the plumbing. Then I have a big mess, when I could have had everything nice and neat with 3 simple devices: canister filter (w/ easy clean pre filter), chaeto reactor, and UV sterilizer.

I'll be installing a sliding drawer inside the aquarium cabinet that the canister will sit on so that I can easily slide it in and out. Like I said, the pre filter cleaning looks super easy. It took the guy I was watching less than a minute to accomplish. I could do that at least once a week. From the guys I've been watching, they say the main filter doesn't need to be opened except every month and a half to three months. Some have gone longer than 6 months without touching the canister and have a successful reef (this one was a comment so I couldn't verify what his tank looked like).

Yes, but he could remove that canister filter and his tank would still do just fine and look good without it.

It's not doing anything amazing for him. So why spend the money on it?

Glass piping in a reef tank is always terrible, you have to clean those pipes often once the tank matures... since you said you don't want it visible. Stuff grows on them incredibly fast. I know because I tried a glass hob overflow, never again. It turns brown so quick and gross and ugly. A HOB overflow would look 100x better.

So yes, it is a ton of work cleaning those pipes over and over and over. I would just not run anything on it if you are OCD about keeping it clean looking or you could intermittently run a easy internal filter or such during weekly maintenance so you pop it on and stir the sand.. then take it off a few hours later. Reef tanks don't need mechanical filtration. Make sure you can reach the back wall to clean it often.

After enough days of cleaning it over and over and maybe breaking it once or twice... you just realize it is not worth. Now if you don't mind cleaning them often, sure go try it out but you asked about canisters being extra work.. soo? Not sure if this is something you want to do or not?

Youtube is deceptive.. they clean their tanks before taking videos or what not and make sure it looks perfect. lol We dang well know crap is growing all over that glass tube. It has light and flow and snails can't clean it out so it is perfect for microalgae.

 

[Andrew.oh17]

I keep a cheap canister filter handy to polish the water or siphon out any nuisance algae or detritus as needed. I don't use it 24/7, but I'll get it out like you would a vacuum cleaner and leave it hooked up to the display for a few hours. Ya know, before guests arrive and such.

 

[simplicity]

Yes, but he could remove that canister filter and his tank would still do just fine and look good without it.

It's not doing anything amazing for him. So why spend the money on it?

Glass piping in a reef tank is always terrible, you have to clean those pipes daily once the tank matures... since you said you don't want it visible. Stuff grows on them incredibly fast. I know because I tried a glass hob overflow, never again. It turns brown so quick and gross and ugly. A HOB overflow would look 100x better.

So yes, it is a ton of work cleaning those pipes over and over and over. I would just not run anything on it if you are OCD about keeping it clean looking or you could intermittently run a easy internal filter or such during weekly maintenance so you pop it on and stir the sand.. then take it off a few hours later. Reef tanks don't need mechanical filtration. Make sure you can reach the back wall to clean it often.

After enough days of cleaning it over and over and maybe breaking it once or twice... you just realize it is not worth. Now if you don't mind cleaning them often, sure go try it out but you asked about canisters being extra work.. soo? Not sure if this is something you want to do or not?

Youtube is deceptive.. they clean their tanks before taking videos or what not and make sure it looks perfect. lol We dang well know crap is growing all over that glass tube. It has light and flow and snails can't clean it out so it is perfect for microalgae.

Well the guy doesn't use the canister for only mechanical filtration. He has a bunch of stuff in there including bio pellets, carbon, and some other stuff I can't remember. I don't think he could run that tank on just an algae reactor.

You do make a point about the glass pipes getting dirty. The guy in the video says he replaces them every week, then cleans the ones that need cleaned. He shows his process in a different video. There's some kind of special tubing he uses that allows him to quickly remove the glass from the tubing.

I am conflicted on the HOB overflow. I've heard some good things and some terrible things about them. You say you had success with yours?

 

[Tamberav]

Well the guy doesn't use the canister for only mechanical filtration. He has a bunch of stuff in there including bio pellets, carbon, and some other stuff I can't remember. I don't think he could run that tank on just an algae reactor.

You do make a point about the glass pipes getting dirty. The guy in the video says he replaces them every week, then cleans the ones that need cleaned. He shows his process in a different video. There's some kind of special tubing he uses that allows him to quickly remove the glass from the tubing.

I am conflicted on the HOB overflow. I've heard some good things and some terrible things about them. You say you had success with yours?

Ok but if you have carbon and stuff then you need to open it up.... to change the carbon every 2 weeks... or what not... which means you are opening.. it... which means he is doing more then just pulling out a sponge.

The lily pipes will start to look gross faster then one week so again... it depends if you care about that. If not, then weekly maintenance is fine to keep them working but you can't expect them to stay nice looking when they have the perfect medium for growing algae. They are not for the OCD.

HOB overflows are fine. I believe Life Reef is one of the best. They have been around for over 30 years or something.

People generally do not use canisters because this hobby already can be time consuming with testing, general maintenance, water changes, stirring sand, dosing magic potions, removing pests, fragging, and so on. People generally try to cut out what excess maintenance they can. That is why they make all these automatic testers, filter rollers, and self cleaning skimmers now. Ha.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Yes, for a typical canister filter I would not want to clean the whole thing out every weekend... but I'm talking about a Biomaster 850...

The title of your thread suggests you are asking if using a canister filter will work. The simple answer is yes it will work. There are a host of more efficient methods, but it will work. You plan seems complicated and expensive, but it will work. It will require a boat load of labor to achieve what you envision, but it will work. I wouldn't do it, but it will probably work.

Your waterbox is a nice tank, and quite expensive. If I were starting in the marine aquarium hobby, I'd not use Youtube as my my go-to for information. It sounds like you are already on a path and are looking for someone to tell you you are on the right one. I'll tell you you are on a path that will work - to a point - but probably leave you disappointed. If it is not too late, I would suggest you rethink your plan. At the very least, a HOB overflow with a sump and a 500 GPH return pump would be a better option.

 

[simplicity]

So the things holding me back are the expense of going your suggested route. Just a return pump would cost the same as the Biomaster 850. Then I need a sump (another $400-500), a skimmer ($400-500), plumbing, etc. So $1200-1500 vs $450. Not to mention the price of an HOB, which isn't that much comparatively, or if I return this tank and get another one, that's who knows how much more.

I'm still not convinced a sump is less work, though. If they recommend cleaning the socks every 3-4 days and the sump/skimmer every few weeks, is this so different than cleaning the easy to clean prefilter once a week and then the main chamber once a month? I understand the expandability of a sump and that it can house more equipment, but the route I'm taking seems simpler to me.

I've been trying to get a hold of waterbox to see what I can do since I haven't even opened the tank packaging yet, just the stand. The stand is universal; it has the middle gap on top and in the back where the overflow pipes would go. If I can return the tank, then I may have to pay return shipping and whatever extra the saltwater version is. Then another $1500 for the extra equipment I'll need. Then lights, sand, rocks, testing equpiment, ro/di, containers... and I'll be broke with no money left for fish lol.

 

[Tamberav]

So the things holding me back are the expense of going your suggested route. Just a return pump would cost the same as the Biomaster 850. Then I need a sump (another $400-500), a skimmer ($400-500), plumbing, etc. So $1200-1500 vs $450. Not to mention the price of an HOB, which isn't that much comparatively, or if I return this tank and get another one, that's who knows how much more.

I'm still not convinced a sump is less work, though. If they recommend cleaning the socks every 3-4 days and the sump/skimmer every few weeks, is this so different than cleaning the easy to clean prefilter once a week and then the main chamber once a month? I understand the expandability of a sump and that it can house more equipment, but the route I'm taking seems simpler to me.

I've been trying to get a hold of waterbox to see what I can do since I haven't even opened the tank packaging yet, just the stand. The stand is universal; it has the middle gap on top and in the back where the overflow pipes would go. If I can return the tank, then I may have to pay return shipping and whatever extra the saltwater version is. Then another $1500 for the extra equipment I'll need. Then lights, sand, rocks, testing equpiment, ro/di, containers... and I'll be broke with no money left for fish lol.

What? Do you need the sump in the basement that you need a big expensive return pump? Many people use Jeabo return pumps if its just a sump in a cabinet. I have a eheim 1262 I bought used for like $75 and it has been in use for 7 years with no failures and I clean it once a year. Sicce is another popular brand that won't cost you a ton.

There is no way every tank on here has a $400 return pump (Looked up that canister filter and it was around that from what I saw).

I just bought a 40 breeder at petco during sales ($50) and had a glass place cut baffles ($40) so my sump was $90. It isn't COOL looking but it also is inside of a cabinet. Sumps also don't look cool once they are not shiney new anyways and instead have debris and a skimmer full of poo.. haha. I don't need a cool looking fish toilet.

PVC plumbing is cheap.. the gate valve is the only more spendy part.

For sump, I will siphon it every 3 months but some people do not siphon at all as the debris is sometimes claimed as inert. I just do it because I am doing a water change anyways so it isn't much extra time.

For socks you can buy a filter cup instead and put floss in it then just toss the floss and replace, so no cleaning socks.

For skimmer, I only remove the cup when its near full then rinse it and wipe the inside with a paper towel. I almost never take the skimmer out for full clean, maybe once every 6 months. It has never shown any problems working or slowing down unless a tiny snail climbs up inside the pump, that did happen once.

I think you are getting ill advise if you think you need all of that to run a reef tank. If you WANT it, sure... you can buy the faciest stuff, but need? absolutely not, people have reef tanks in cookie jars.

 

[ReefGeezer]

... and I'll be broke with no money left for fish lol.

Welcome to the hobby. We are all broke. You don't have to spend a fortune though. A Bubble Magnus Curve 7 skimmer for your tank is less than $300 shipped. A better Reef Octopus is a little more. You can build a DIY sump cheaply from a cheap glass tank from Petco... maybe An good Ehiem 1262 return pump is less than $200. If you skip the unnecessary UV, reactor, and pumps to run them you'll have money for these things. If you can return your tank for one with overflows, all the better.
I dump my skimmer 2 or 3 times a week. It takes one minute. I clean it maybe once a week. That takes maybe 5 minutes. I don't run filter socks often, but when I do they the pop in and out quickly.

 

[Tamberav]

Spend smart the first time or end up spending twice later