Is carbon dosing helpful if you DON'T have a skimmer?

[Daniel@R2R]

Just curious and thought this might be a good discussion. I know carbon dosing is a helpful and time proven strategy for nutrient export...for folks who have skimmers... but what if you don't have a skimmer to take up the bacteria that are consuming the nutrients? Still helpful?? Is it possible other things in the tank would utilize the bacteria and thereby take up the nutrients? Would the bacteria be exported or taken up some other way?

 

[alysak6075]

it might actually kill things in the tank because the bacteria will uptake oxygen. The corals might absorb some of the bacteria. The only other useful option would be daily small water changes to export part of the bacteria.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is a topic often argued and I find it appreciated until something goes wrong, then the blame game kicks in.
Carbon dosing requires a good understand of maintaining good water chemistry ,how it will affect water chemistry and how to quickly recognize changes in the appearance of your corals and the behavior of your fish. Many reefers resort to it to simply reduce very high levels nitrates and phosphates. I use Chemipure Elite to accomplish that.
Youre in essence adding a food source which is organic carbon to promote the growth of certain bacterias in your water. As these bacteria grow, they will consume nitrates and phosphates from the water. Once they grow large enough, a skimmer will remove these bacteria along with all of the nitrate and phosphates that was consumed. This method is not recommended for established tanks in which many reefers make the mistake of doing. Also it can promote cyano, dino and diatoms. Naturally this method can and may remove saturated oxygen, , , , so research before implementing !!
On the other hand, it can control nutrients and color in corals if applied properly as well as keeping tank clear from overfeeding.

 

[burningmime]

According to BRS, yes. It will reduce nitrate/phosphate:



(EDIT: Go to about 6:40 and 8:05 where they mention no-skimmer dosing)

 

[andrewkw]

I feel like you would just have a forever cloudy tank. I am a big fan of carbon dosing and have been carbon dosing in my main display for maybe 7 or 8 years non stop. Initially it was to combat some issues but over the last 5 or so years it's been just as maintenance. While it has been a long time I can still remember the difference in what my skimmer used to pull out and what it does now. At the same time filter socks clog way faster so it's possible if you changed them daily or had some elaborate system where water drained into several different filter socks that would remove the bacteria / organics but why go to all that trouble? Just get a skimmer. If you don't have a skimmer and your tank is running fine you probably don't need to carbon dose. I have been carbon dosing for years as mentioned but only in one of my systems. I've never even considered trying in skimmerless systems because if there were nutrient issues I'd get a protein skimmer first.

 

[fishlover1478]

@Subsea can probably tell you

 

[Hincapiej4]

Even WITH a skimmer I had some issues...

 

[Uncle99]

While corals are good at taking up nitrate, they are not so adapt to taking in phosphate. When I add a carbon source to increase the good bacteria, these bacteria consume some of the phosphates and then corals then more easily consume some of the bacteria.

No skimmer, no issue IMM, it’s simply one export method.

 

[shred5]

Just curious and thought this might be a good discussion. I know carbon dosing is a helpful and time proven strategy for nutrient export...for folks who have skimmers... but what if you don't have a skimmer to take up the bacteria that are consuming the nutrients? Still helpful?? Is it possible other things in the tank would utilize the bacteria and thereby take up the nutrients? Would the bacteria be exported or taken up some other way?

Depends on what you are doing it for.
I think if you are using it for nutrient export you would need a skimmer.
I like to dose smaller amounts of carbon along with different bacteria because I think some corals use bacteria as food like possibly some types of goniopora. Would you need a skimmer for this no.

 

[LegendaryCG]

I do think carbon dosing is quite misunderstood (and I might misunderstand too!). But my understanding is that carbon dosing provides a food source that encourages the growth of bacteria capable of using phosphates. So excess phosphate is now effectively mobilized in the tank and things such as coral which can consume bacteria but do not directly consume phosphate can now process it.

In other words carbon -> bacteria -> phosphate -> coral/stuff that eats bacteria

However I think a skimmer is a key component to this to prevent oxygen depletion from bacteria growth and to remove excessive bacteria not being consumed which would eventually die and re-release organics.

 

[Cell]

Couldnt frequent water changes simply replace the need for a skimmer when carbon dosing?

 

[tvan]

Surface agitation adds more dissolved oxygen then a skimmer. To much of anything can throw the tank out of balance.

 

[Hincapiej4]

Carbon dosing mainly takes up nitrates and much less phosphates.

But it will mess with your oxygen and can in turn mess with your ph

 

[Cell]

Couldnt frequent water changes simply replace the need for a skimmer when carbon dosing?

I guess this wouldnt solve the oxygen issue, only the bacterial export.

 

[Subsea]

Just curious and thought this might be a good discussion. I know carbon dosing is a helpful and time proven strategy for nutrient export...for folks who have skimmers... but what if you don't have a skimmer to take up the bacteria that are consuming the nutrients? Still helpful?? Is it possible other things in the tank would utilize the bacteria and thereby take up the nutrients? Would the bacteria be exported or taken up some other way?

Carbon dosing with synthetic carbon grows all bacteria. Corals & macro algae utilize/consume bacteria. Protein skimmers only attach to free swimming bacteria that are drawn to electrostatic charge on bubble surface.

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

reefs.com

[Aquaria subjected to active filtration via skimming present water column bacteria populations that are approximately 1/10 of those observed on natural reefs. The consequences of this disparity on the long-term health of the tank’s livestock are not known. How do reef tank organisms adapt to such a bacteria-deficient environment? Is the whole food web in an aquarium perturbed, or are there compensatory mechanisms that maintain an appropriate energy transduction through all of the trophic levels? Is “old tank syndrome” related to possible nutritional deficiencies stemming from this bacteria “gap”? Alternatively, could “old tank syndrome” be symptomatic of a gradual decrease of bacterial diversity as a consequence of selective skimmer-based removal of only bubble-susceptible bacteria? At present, it is not possible to go beyond speculation on these points – further research is needed.]

 

[Rmckoy]

Anything is possible . Whether with a skimmer or without .
the idea of carbon dosing is to colonize bacteria to consume nitrates and phosphates .
this organic bacteria which is later exported via skimmer