Is ICH present in every tank?

[larrysaltisfun]

I heard this quote again tonight from Logan of reef rookies on YouTube. I also know that people that swear by ICH management would concur with this.

However, this intuitively does not make sense if you properly do a a copper quarantine in conjunction with running a fallow display tank for 60 days. Wouldn’t this by definition clear the tank of any Tomonts , and if you only re-introduce fish that have been successfully been cured from Ich or never had to it begin with , make the premise that ICH is present in every tank false?

Or is just running a fallow system only serving to reduce the Tomont load so low that healthy fish with good immune systems would not become reinfected, but still could become so if they become compromised?

Thank you fish medics for your guidance

 

[Mebbid]

No, ich is not present in every tank. However, if you don't practice strict quarantine procedures then your tank almost certainly has it. Even if you do practice quarantine you could make a mistake and it could slip in.

 

[Acroholic89]

Here is my opinion. In the past, I qt'd everything. All fish went through at least 45 days of qt and copper, cp, etc. I had a totally separate system in another room. All tools, nets, you name it were only used in the qt system. Corals were qted as well in their own coral qt system. Dips, etc. I was religious to this. 2 years downstream of the system and all inhabitants going through qt, and not adding any additional corals, or fish, my powder blue tang swam by one evening, and dang, had ich on it.

So for me, I believe ich is in the systems. Just like the cold virus is always around. Weak fish, get sick. Healthy fish do not. I'm not sure why my powder blue popped ich, as it was super healthy, but its still here.

I added a uv sterilizer to the system shortly afterwards. Some people love the uv, some don't. But for me, 2 years after the ich incident, and the addition of the uv, no ich on the fish. That's just my .02 worth. If i was to ever add fish or corals, I would qt them, and medicate the fish etc. Corals would get their own qt as well. Hope this helps.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I heard this quote again tonight from Logan of reef rookies on YouTube. I also know that people that swear by ICH management would concur with this.

However, this intuitively does not make sense if you properly do a a copper quarantine in conjunction with running a fallow display tank for 60 days. Wouldn’t this by definition clear the tank of any Tomonts , and if you only re-introduce fish that have been successfully been cured from Ich or never had to it begin with , make the premise that ICH is present in every tank false?

Or is just running a fallow system only serving to reduce the Tomont load so low that healthy fish with good immune systems would not become reinfected, but still could become so if they become compromised?

Thank you fish medics for your guidance

Ahhh,,,, good old you tube. There is alot of controversy with posting on you tube and facebook and you have to both be careful what you read and seek what is credible, often with quotations, and not who is popular.
I think this person is indicating fish have immune systems and carry virus and disease and utilize their immune systems to fight this
Fallow systems assure disease dies off without a host fish and not to reduce risk on fish when present

 

[W31Olds]

I heard this quote again tonight from Logan of reef rookies on YouTube. I also know that people that swear by ICH management would concur with this.

However, this intuitively does not make sense if you properly do a a copper quarantine in conjunction with running a fallow display tank for 60 days. Wouldn’t this by definition clear the tank of any Tomonts , and if you only re-introduce fish that have been successfully been cured from Ich or never had to it begin with , make the premise that ICH is present in every tank false?

Or is just running a fallow system only serving to reduce the Tomont load so low that healthy fish with good immune systems would not become reinfected, but still could become so if they become compromised?

Thank you fish medics for your guidance

This argument has never made any sense to me in a closed system like a Home Aquarium. Ich will always be present on Ocean Reefs but cannot reach sufficient numbers due dilution in billions of gallons of saltwater. In a small Home Aquarium Ich can find Hosts easily, so numbers increase exponentially. I agree it wouldn't make any sense to Fallow a system if Ich was always present. Many people who don't run UV Systems are successful.
As far as immunity goes, Ich is a parasite so immunity would more than likely have to be an increase in the Slimecoat or some Hormone that repels the Parasite kind of like Mosquito Repellant. That being said, QT would serve no purpose whatsoever. It would mean that I would QT my fish, get him Parasite Free, then introduce him into my DT with low level Ich already present but " Immune Inhabitants" and the new Fish would be Infected.
Finally, for Aquarists that have Tanks that have run many months or even years without incident, then have an unexplained Ich outbreak it's always most likely going to be a breakdown in Biosecurity or a QT Failure. That's one of the reasons I believe a UV setup for Parasite Control is a useful tool and an added layer of insurance.

 

[winxp_man]

This argument has never made any sense to me in a closed system like a Home Aquarium. Ich will always be present on Ocean Reefs but cannot reach sufficient numbers due dilution in billions of gallons of saltwater. In a small Home Aquarium Ich can find Hosts easily, so numbers increase exponentially. I agree it wouldn't make any sense to Fallow a system if Ich was always present. Many people who don't run UV Systems are successful.
As far as immunity goes, Ich is a parasite so immunity would more than likely have to be an increase in the Slimecoat or some Hormone that repels the Parasite kind of like Mosquito Repellant. That being said, QT would serve no purpose whatsoever. It would mean that I would QT my fish, get him Parasite Free, then introduce him into my DT with low level Ich already present but " Immune Inhabitants" and the new Fish would be Infected.
Finally, for Aquarists that have Tanks that have run many months or even years without incident, then have an unexplained Ich outbreak it's always most likely going to be a breakdown in Biosecurity or a QT Failure. That's one of the reasons I believe a UV setup for Parasite Control is a useful tool and an added layer of insurance.

The secret is they are conflating reef ocean with reef tanks!!!

I see so many posts on FB it’s not even funny! Along side wrong protocols to QT, and diagnosis for diseases.

They don’t get that at once point even managing will only work so far before the disease populates too much.

Lastly, I think you guys just don’t know anything! It’s garlic! That’s the ich eradicator!
I know it to be true cause I saw it on Facebook!

 

[matt0]

I don’t think so.

I bred freshwater fish for years and heard the same thing. I never really had a problem with ich outside of qt, I’m guessing this is because I would use ich-x in qt and it wouldn’t get introduced.

 

[larrysaltisfun]

Thank you all for your time and very clear answers and thankfully, you are reinforcing what I thought. I already knew. I appreciate all you do and I know my saltwater buddie with gills do as well!

 

[Paul B]

I really don't know if ich is present in every system for two reasons. I have not seen every tank, and although I have excellent eyesight, I can't see ich parasites. I can read though, and there are so many systems that after extensive quarantine, even years, ich shows up. I'm not sure why.

I don't have to be concerned about it, but I realize it does affect many systems, and we don't seem to have all the answers.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I heard this quote again tonight from Logan of reef rookies on YouTube. I also know that people that swear by ICH management would concur with this.

However, this intuitively does not make sense if you properly do a a copper quarantine in conjunction with running a fallow display tank for 60 days. Wouldn’t this by definition clear the tank of any Tomonts , and if you only re-introduce fish that have been successfully been cured from Ich or never had to it begin with , make the premise that ICH is present in every tank false?

Or is just running a fallow system only serving to reduce the Tomont load so low that healthy fish with good immune systems would not become reinfected, but still could become so if they become compromised?

Thank you fish medics for your guidance

No - that’s not true, I’ve had five eDNA tests run on four different systems and ich was present in only one of them, and then when tested 6 months later, it wasn’t present.

 

[larrysaltisfun]

Here is my opinion. In the past, I qt'd everything. All fish went through at least 45 days of qt and copper, cp, etc. I had a totally separate system in another room. All tools, nets, you name it were only used in the qt system. Corals were qted as well in their own coral qt system. Dips, etc. I was religious to this. 2 years downstream of the system and all inhabitants going through qt, and not adding any additional corals, or fish, my powder blue tang swam by one evening, and dang, had ich on it.

So for me, I believe ich is in the systems. Just like the cold virus is always around. Weak fish, get sick. Healthy fish do not. I'm not sure why my powder blue popped ich, as it was super healthy, but its still here.

I added a uv sterilizer to the system shortly afterwards. Some people love the uv, some don't. But for me, 2 years after the ich incident, and the addition of the uv, no ich on the fish. That's just my .02 worth. If i was to ever add fish or corals, I would qt them, and medicate the fish etc. Corals would get their own qt as well. Hope this helps.

With hindsight, maybe it was just mucus plugs due to stress?

 

[Acroholic89]

With hindsight, maybe it was just mucus plugs due to stress?

could be...............dunno. I just feed my super fat fish a lot, and everything seems okay for a long time now.

 

[larrysaltisfun]

lol me too except the PO4 farm I raised with heavy feeding

 

[fish_collector]

This may be what's been discussed already as I only skimmed through the posts so sorry in advance if it's been repeated already.

Lets say we have a tank full of healthy fish for several years, no random white specks, no flashing, no rapid breathing, excellent appetites, nothing to give any indication that ich would be present. If none of the fish ever have ich attach to them wouldn't the ich just die off without completing their life cycle?

 

[Paul B]

Lets say we have a tank full of healthy fish for several years, no random white specks, no flashing, no rapid breathing, excellent appetites, nothing to give any indication that ich would be present. If none of the fish ever have ich attach to them wouldn't the ich just die off without completing their life cycle?

I think it would. I'm not sure. My tank is very old and I never quarantine or medicate. I buy fish from anyplace, even Petco and I never have any ich problems.

I just had a test on my water (Jay paid for it) and it read no ich DNA.

I have put in fish with ich over many years and no fish ever died of it.
Unless I purposely got a fish that was near death for free.

 

[larrysaltisfun]

Lets say we have a tank full of healthy fish for several years, no random white specks, no flashing, no rapid breathing, excellent appetites, nothing to give any indication that ich would be present. If none of the fish ever have ich attach to them wouldn't the ich just die off without completing their life cycle?

I think it would. I'm not sure. My tank is very old and I never quarantine or medicate. I buy fish from anyplace, even Petco and I never have any ich problems.

I just had a test on my water (Jay paid for it) and it read no ich DNA.

I have put in fish with ich over many years and no fish ever died of it.
Unless I purposely got a fish that was near death for free.

Dang I was right, Paul B is the fish whisperer

 

[JumboShrimp]

Shhhhh. I only use "extra premium garlic" sourced from a "secret Gypsy village hidden deep in Romania."

 

[JayM]

No, ich isn't present in every tank.

 

[Paul B]

Dang I was right, Paul B is the fish whisperer

No, I just don't believe all the nonsense I read and instead, just ask the fish how they feel.

 

[exnisstech]

I have no idea if all tanks have ich. Several years back I attempted a powder blue tang. I did the full 30 days of copper and within 48 hours of being added to my DT the fish was covered in what appeared to be ich. It ended up dying and no other fish in the tank showed any signs including a purple, naso, Hippo and convict tangs. I still have 3 of those fish with the naso and purple coming up on 10 years and have never seen any spots. My take away was to give up on trying to keep a powder blue tang lol. I haven't tested for ich and have no plans too. I'm in the ignorances is bliss crowd and don't look for problems to solve.