Is it possible to have too much biological filtration??

[Travis Gohr]

I’ve got a 60 gallon cube and I’m starting to wonder if I have too much biological filtration.

I had a strange very aggressive algae outbreak that seemed to thrive off of water and light alone. My nitrates and phosphates were at zero, corals were growing but very little color, so I dosed fluconazole. It worked great! Rid the tank of the algae completely. But, my nitrates and phosphates never rebounded like I thought they would.

I started feeding more aggressively but nothing except a bit more color from my corals. Finally I decided to do an experiment, I turned off my skimmer, had it on but low enough to not collect any skim just keep the water oxygenated, and did no water changes for a month. I also increased feeding.

In that month the color in my corals improved a lot, no algae grew (still had fluconazole in the system), and my nitrates/phosphates barely moved.

At the end of the month I got the skimmer collecting skim again, started my water changes back up, and the color of the corals dialed back. One coral died (unsure if it was related).

Here’s my setup:

- 60 cube
- No sand
- 3 bio bricks in the sump
- Reef Octopus Regal 150-s skimmer
- SPS system with multiple acros and montipora + a handful of zoas
- Kole Tang, two clowns, yellow wrasse, green wrasse, and starry blenny
- feed them around 3/4-1 cube of carnivore cuisine or Rod’s reef food equivalent. Add a small sheet of Nori once or twice a week
- Half cup of carbon changed every other week (wasn’t running when fluconazole was in the system)

Interested to hear thoughts on this.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

1 week ago I did same thing. It was experiment to see if raising nitrates and phophates would make corals grow and look better. So I decided easiest way is feed more and remove skimmer cup and all cheato. Did this and within 2-4 days notice corals seem to look better so I’m like great that must mean nitrates and phos went up and corals like it. So I tested nitrate and phos and they actually stayed the same or went down. I’m so puzzled gunna follow this

 

[Travis Gohr]

Considering cutting the biobricks into thirds and removing 1/3 every month to see if things change.

btw tank is about 2 years old now.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Considering cutting the biobricks into thirds and removing 1/3 every month to see if things change.

btw tank is about 2 years old now.

Yes. If you have established a good anoxic bacterial population, it could be converting all your nitrate into nitrogen gas (which is what we want it to do, but if it's too effective, the water ends up too clean)

 

[Ricox]

Would like to know the answer. Following. I have biological filtration rated 10x my actual water volume.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

A skimmer is not a biofilter. It removes dissolved organic from the water, basically dissolved fish food and poo.

A biofilter is the bacteria that coverts ammonia to nitrite/nitrate, and that will balance out according to the bio load.

so by turning off the skimmer you basically left more food in the water for the corals.

 

[Tamberav]

+1 above

but yes…tanks can be too clean…. Generally a combination of factors. Skimmers, fuge or coral load, water changes, carbon, filter socks… they all have an impact.

 

[Lavey29]

+1 above

but yes…tanks can be too clean…. Generally a combination of factors. Skimmers, fuge or coral load, water changes, carbon, filter socks… they all have an impact.

I'm curious about this, yes I agree you can have to much export in your tank but never to much beneficial bacteria? A system will only support the amount of bacteria that it can sustain correct?

 

[Acrofiend]

I’ve never believed it but I’ve had two tanks where I added siporax in the beginning and around the half year mark my nitrates would drop to 0.

 

[bruno3047]

Not possible. You can only have as much nitrifying bacteria as the waste products/ammonia in your aquarium will support. Even if you ramp up nitrifying bacteria by increasing feeding, let’s say. When you ramp back down, your nitrifying bacteria colonies will ramp back down with it. Same holds true for denitrifying bacteria. You can only have as much denitrifying bacteria as your nitrate levels will support. If you’re one of the people who believes low nitrates is a problem, then I guess it’s possible to have too much denitrification. I’m not one of those people.

 

[Travis Gohr]

I understand the skimmer isn’t biofiltration and that’s the point. When I removed that as a filtration source, stopped water changes, and increased feeding nitrates we’re still pegged at zero. The only possible filtration sources at that point were the live rock and bio bricks.

The zero nitrates aren’t a problem so much as the lack of color. New corals went from brightly colored to mostly pale with colorful tips. When I did my month long experiment the colors started coming back. Hence why I’m wondering if it’s possible too have too much biofiltration.

And in this case think of it as biofiltration capacity. Is three bio bricks too much capacity for a 60 gallon with that much food going into it.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I understand the skimmer isn’t biofiltration and that’s the point. When I removed that as a filtration source, stopped water changes, and increased feeding nitrates we’re still pegged at zero. The only possible filtration sources at that point were the live rock and bio bricks.

The zero nitrates aren’t a problem so much as the lack of color. New corals went from brightly colored to mostly pale with colorful tips. When I did my month long experiment the colors started coming back. Hence why I’m wondering if it’s possible too have too much biofiltration.

And in this case think of it as biofiltration capacity. Is three bio bricks too much capacity for a 60 gallon with that much food going into it.

I would remove 1 or 2 of the bricks and see what happens. Do you have another tank you can put them in temporarily so you don't lose the bacteria?

 

[Travis Gohr]

I would remove 1 or 2 of the bricks and see what happens. Do you have another tank you can put them in temporarily so you don't lose the bacteria?

Good point. I don’t at the moment but can set one up pretty quickly. Was thinking about removing them in halves or thirds, slowly, so as not to throw the system out of balance too quickly.

 

[bruno3047]

Ocean water nitrates are at zero in the tropics. Just thought you might like to know that. When nitrate levels rise in the ocean, that’s a sign of pollution, and it’s usually accompanied by a coral reef die-off

 

[Travis Gohr]

Ocean water nitrates are at zero in the tropics. Just thought you might like to know that. When nitrate levels rise in the ocean, that’s a sign of pollution, and it’s usually accompanied by a coral reef die-off

This is true. And my aquarium isn’t the ocean. I keep my alkalinity a little higher than the ocean to boost SPS growth. The light spectrum isn’t the same as what corals get in the ocean because we’ve found more optimum spectrums for growth and color. So if having a little nitrates in the water boosts color but isn’t necessarily a perfect match for the ocean, I’m here for it.

 

[bruno3047]

This is true. And my aquarium isn’t the ocean. I keep my alkalinity a little higher than the ocean to boost SPS growth. The light spectrum isn’t the same as what corals get in the ocean because we’ve found more optimum spectrums for growth and color. So if having a little nitrates in the water boosts color but isn’t necessarily a perfect match for the ocean, I’m here for it.

Maybe the color is more intense because you’re stressing them. Ever think of that? Fish that Ihave been caught with cyanide are known to have more intense coloration, right before they die.

 

[Travis Gohr]

Maybe the color is more intense because you’re stressing them. Ever think of that?

Definitely considered that! In that case it would be on par (puns for everyone!) with the corals showing more color when under higher par lighting to protect themselves from the light.

but now we’re getting away from the point of this post…

 

[bruno3047]

Maybe the color is more intense because you’re stressing them. Ever think of that?

Definitely considered that! In that case it would be on par (puns for everyone!) with the corals showing more color when under higher par lighting to protect themselves from the light.

but now we’re getting away from the point of this post…

Sorry. Certainly didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Just thought I’d interject a little science.

 

[Travis Gohr]

Sorry. Certainly didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Just thought I’d interject a little science.

You’re definitely right with the science and it’s something I’ve considered for years. But we really aren’t keeping biome specific systems in every way. We’re modifying the variables to get the outcome we want. This includes water temps as well. We’re mixing and matching species from different locales and depths and then claiming the “ocean” as a baseline for perfection but then modifying where we feel necessary.

In this case I’d like my nitrates higher than zero to bring out the bright colors in the corals.

 

[Danroo]

Corals consume nitrates and phosphates as well. Or maybe you’ve small amounts of Dino’s that are consuming same with biological filtration. This is something interesting I thought only two things consume nitrates and phosphates. Corals and algae.