Is qt always needed?

ParkPlace · Jan 28, 2022

I do about a two hour bath in an antibacterial cocktail added to the acclimation bucket and then put my new arrivals directly in my sump for a month before adding them to the display tank. I feel that qt can be way to harsh and only serve to weaken their immune system. Especially on more delicate fish who may already be weak from all the transport and May not be eating when you get them. The water from my sump must travel through an oversized UV light to get back to the display tank. If I were to start to see any issues, then I would remove them but to date, I’ve isolated about 12 fish with this method and had zero issues. I feel like we can overdo it with all the drugs and sterilization. Look at the killer whales at sea world. They wouldn’t even survive in captivity now without being pumped full of antibiotics constantly as their immune systems are shot.

Susan Edwards · Jan 28, 2022

I think everyone has their own method or need. In the first few months of my Reefing, with a 60g tank, I got velvet and lost 9 out of 13 fish. But it was my error that caused it as I added too many new fish to a small system (mother's day and I went nuts!). After that, I did QT, just observed and then treated if needed. Like once or twice so now I have a cabinet of meds that are years old. I've actually lost fish doing QT. After I upgraded to a 125g, I stopped doing QT as I didn't have a set up. fish just went in--but I was reasonable in what I added. Never lost a fish since or had any illness (but to tank crashes due to paint primer). Feed frozen, have done my own food and buy occasionally frozen commercial foods. Also periodically have done black worms when I can get them. Use garlic when new fish added. I've lost fish but not sure to what--usually they just disappear.

Currently, I do have a RS 45g AIO with 2 clowns that cannot go into my big display so I can start to do observation once I get that tank cleaned up (dead skimmer motor now replaced). It has light sand and some rock. Yeah, gotta remove the rock to get fish out. But so far, in the new set up, I've not used any QT and not sure I will. Exception is if I buy from LA, I have too, as if anything dies I need to get it out and take pics. Hard to do in a 200 display.

I personally do not believe in medicating just to medicate just in case--too stressful. I don't do it for me (vaccines excepted) so I don't do it for the fish. And those sterile qt tanks with pvc, again stressful. Now that my new tank is running smoothly I plan to go back to making my own food, collecting what I need to do white worms, do black worms when I can get them, and maybe culture those as well. Just got some freeze-dried blackworm food in the meantime (from Ca blackworm co) until they have live for sale. I also do brine shrimp.

I am a believer that a sterile tank breeds disasters as 1 slip up and you're dead in the water--or your fish are. Just as raising your children in a sterile environment just means when they hit school, they will be sick all the time. And to keep ich out, you have to QT for 76 days for all snails and corals. This is just not feasible for me. I've lost most corals I tried this with, so I take the "management" route.

My son in law with his 500 g system has had ich many times, lost a lot of fish. Lost all but 3 this last time. Yet the service company he uses just restocked his tank with like 30 fish!! Maybe more... And he plans to take them out and go fallow as he just set up a QT system. Shaking my head there...

Am I playing with fire? Perhaps, but going on 5 years now, and no disasters since my 4th month.

ReefRusty · Jan 28, 2022

There is no right or wrong with going ahead to QT or to just put into your tank. There are always going to be pros and cons for both. Me personally have never QT and have a great fish survival. My LFS QT their fish prior to been on display and then placed in copper when on display.

I personally think it's more stressful for a fish that isn't sick. Like taking cold and flu tablets when your fine. And it causing other issues.

But setting up a QT tank is also not on the cards due to the fun and finance police in my household.

Susan Edwards · Jan 28, 2022

ReefRusty said:
But setting up a QT tank is also not on the cards due to the fun and finance police in my household.

lol's.

Johnboy3886 · Jan 28, 2022

I started quarantining fish a year or so ago on my new build, and I think there is something that gets missed when talking about QT. It’s a great way to prevent ick, ext…,but one thing I find is that it lets me get to know the fish. I’m more focused on that one, or 2 fish when they are isolated. I learn what they like to eat, what there behavior is like. The fish gets conditioned to you as well. I believe that is less stressful for the fish to make the transition from one tank to another when they don’t have to deal with all of it at once. I think it’s a great idea to medicate fish, and I do, but even if I purchased QTed fish I would still keep them in QT for a couple of weeks just to make the transition easier. This is Just my experience, but I never hear this point. BTW. I love wrasses and have 4 of them. The key for me to treat them with copper is get them fat first, then very slowly add copper. 7-10 days to get to 2.0 with copper power. I have only lost 1 wrasse in QT but that was before copper. Best of luck to whatever you choose and sound like some really cool additions!

Urban · Jan 31, 2022

Urban said:
I’m truly curious at this point. Obviously I was making a joke in my earlier post, but I’m the friend who currently owns the fish.
The OP and I have been long term friends and both know the other’s systems fairly well.

The fish were originally quarantined, and most were purchased through Diver’s Den, which claims to also quarantine. Looking back through older emails, I found that each of these has been in my system for two and a half to three years. There has never been any disease that affected the fish within this system (SPS Dominated), and they were also quarantined by me.

The last addition to my tank was a very small fox face in October of 2020. After quarantining him in a separate system, there was no sign of disease, and he was added to the tank (and has also been re-homed). Knowing this, and the life cycle of the primary diseases, what is the rationale? I whole heartedly understand the need for quarantining in unknown situations, but in this particular case, what is it that would cause you to put the fish through the stress of quarantining them? These guys are currently in my nano reef (I had to part with my larger system for an upcoming move), and will be for another week, before ultimately going to my friend, the OP. They’re being temporarily housed in my nano (1 move). What is the logic behind moving them from this system (2 moves), to a quarantine system (3 moves), and then to another system afterwards (4 moves)? Three of the wrasses burrow, and unless I am very wrong, I’ve always been under the impression that when quarantining, sand beds are typically not preferred, especially when medicating (consider the life cycle of amyloodinium). Knowing the history, how could the stress on the fish be justified in this case?

With both coral and fish - and I have told the OP this - I’ve always said quarantine it even if it’s handed to you by God himself. I have now found myself wondering if in this situation (or others that are similar) there’s an exception… My primary concern is the well being of the fish, and I know the OP is the same way (trust me). I feel like the day may eventually come when the only place we can see a piece of the reef is in a glass box (if at all), and with that feeling comes a fear of losing the livestock we already have.

Dustin

Correction. I added the fox face in 2021 AFTER quarantining. So hypothetically, let’s assume it was the last day of October (which I know it wasn’t). That means that it would have been in my display tank for 21 days on top of the quarantine that he had received in the nano tank which also included other fish that are still there that are disease-free. Does this make any difference in anyone’s eyes?

Dustin

bnord · Jan 31, 2022

I assume the recipient of the Fox Face has had no issues with their tank? (sorry if this was brought up earlier)

SudzFD · Jan 31, 2022

I dip my new additions in Hydroplex and I’ve had very good success with that. Could be a way to make you feel more comfortable but I certainly don’t think quarantining is necessary in this case.

Urban · Jan 31, 2022

bnord said:
I assume the recipient of the Fox Face has had no issues with their tank? (sorry if this was brought up earlier)

None. I just checked this morning.

Urban · Jan 31, 2022

Tamberav said:
It’s a personal decision. Yes the fish can still have disease but chances are certainly lower than buying them at the LFS. The stress of moving them may make it surface.

No one here is going to be the person to recover from disease or buy you new fish. Whatever advice you get… it’s still you that has to deal with it.

So you need to decide what you personally are willing to risk and do.

Agreed 100%, with the exception of the second part. As long as there are no new additions for four months, I’ve offered to replace every fish in the system if there is a disease of any sort that causes the death of what’s there.

Dustin

threebuoys · Jan 31, 2022

Urban said:
Correction. I added the fox face in 2021 AFTER quarantining. So hypothetically, let’s assume it was the last day of October (which I know it wasn’t). That means that it would have been in my display tank for 21 days on top of the quarantine that he had received in the nano tank which also included other fish that are still there that are disease-free. Does this make any difference in anyone’s eyes?

Dustin

threebuoys said:
While I am a firm believer in quarantine, it sounds as if the current owner has been diligent in his care. @Urban did not indicate if his quarantine process used copper and prazi as currently recommended, but clearly, he has taken steps to avoid crypto and other parasites. Since the foxface was introduced in 2020, these fish have well over a year of no apparent infection. If I had a friend I knew well and trusted his skills, I would gladly accept fish from him and add to my DT without additional quarantine.

The only caveat to my earlier comment: Did you QT in copper or was it an observation only QT? If it was in copper, I continue to believe additional QT is no necessary. If observational only (particularly for the recent Foxface add), then I would recommend following the current QT guidelines.